Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
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Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
The Economist ima dobar profil generala Dvornikova koji preuzima vođenje operacije od Surovikina.
https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/04/11/russias-invasion-of-ukraine-is-under-new-management
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is under new management
Apr 11th 2022
AS THE RUSSIAN invasion of Ukraine stalled in February and March, Western officials scoured the intelligence to work out who was in charge. No one, it seemed. Russia had attacked Ukraine from several axes in the north, east and south. Each of those forces was fighting—and in some cases, losing—its own war. As Russia [url=safari-reader://www.economist.com/briefing/2022/04/02/what-next-for-russia]abandons its assault[/url] on Kyiv for now and focuses instead on the Donbas region and the rest of eastern Ukraine, it is learning from its mistakes. On April 8th a Western official told The Economist and other news organisations that General Alexander Dvornikov, commander of Russia’s southern military district, had been put in charge of operations in Ukraine. Who is he?
General Dvornikov was born in Ussuriysk, a city near the Chinese border in Russia’s far east, in 1961. He graduated from the local military school as a teenager and rose through the ranks in what was then called Russia’s Far Eastern military district, whose main task was to guard against Chinese attack. Like Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, he served in East Germany, leaving with the last Russian forces in 1994. He also fought in the exceptionally brutal second Chechen war at the turn of the millennium. “He accomplished everything smoothly and with hard work, was never anyone’s protégé and moved up the ranks with great difficulty,” a military source told Russian state media in 2016. He was later appointed deputy commander of the Eastern district and then chief of staff of the Central one, which has responsibility for Central Asia.
That led to a career-making posting. In 2015 General Dvornikov became the first commander of Russia’s military campaign in support of Bashar al-Assad, Syria’s dictator. The idea of a small but decisive projection of military power a long way beyond the country’s borders, using air, ground and naval forces, was a novelty for Russia. “The Syrian armed forces had completely exhausted themselves, the personnel were demoralised [and] the officer corps was degraded,” recalled General Dvornikov, years later. Russian involvement “radically changed the situation”.
His success in turning the situation around and rescuing Mr Assad’s regime earned him the Kremlin’s approbation: in 2016 he was made a Hero of the Russian Federation, the country’s highest honour. He also bagged an appointment as commander of the Southern military district. The district is small, but strategic: it abuts Donbas, where Russian forces and their proxies have fought Ukraine since 2014, and where the next phase of the current war is likely to play out. It was this command, and his consequent knowledge of the area, that probably led to his appointment as the point man for Ukraine.
That command also put him on a British sanctions list: he is alleged to have overseen air support for a Russian attack on Ukrainian naval vessels in 2018, which helped Russia consolidate its occupation of Crimea. More troubling still was the conduct of the forces he commanded in Syria. During his first three months in charge, Russian air strikes were estimated to have killed almost 700 members of Islamic State, a jihadist group—but almost 800 civilians, too. Human-rights bodies accuse Russia of using cluster munitions in built-up areas and deliberately striking hospitals around Aleppo, a rebel-held city. In 2020 Human Rights Watch, an NGO, cited General Dvornikov’s Hero of the Russian Federation award as evidence of the “lack of accountability” in Russia’s war.
Heavy civilian casualties were an inevitable byproduct of the strategy General Dvornikov adopted in Syria. In an article published in 2018, he pointed to the difficulty of fighting in mountains, in tunnels under cities and night operations. Firepower was key, he said: air strikes, missiles fired from warships, artillery and, in Aleppo, “constant fire…day and night, without a break”. Psychological warfare was important, too: “without information operations, we would not have been successful in Aleppo, Deir ez-Zor and Ghouta,” said General Dvornikov, referring to urban areas that were all but levelled.
Ironically, given Russia’s woes in Ukraine, the paramount lesson was the importance of unified command. General Dvornikov ran the war from Russia’s headquarters in Khmeimim, an airbase in western Syria, with 15-20 staff. Khmeimim “linked all the elements into a single reconnaissance and strike” system, he noted later. Commanders could talk to one another by video link. Naval officers could co-ordinate strikes by aircraft-carriers against ground targets. Decisions were made quickly.
General Dvornikov is not the only one with this experience. Almost every senior Russian officer has spent time in Syria. Alexander Zhuravlyov and Alexander Chayko, the generals who command Russia’s Western and Eastern military districts respectively, have both commanded Syrian operations twice and have spent longer there than General Dvornikov, notes Rob Lee of King’s College London. But General Dvornikov is “very thoughtful” and “listens to others, contrary to many Russian generals of his rank and generation”, says a source who has met him. He is said to have impressed German officials during a visit to the country some years ago.
A capacity to learn will be vital for Russia’s armed forces. “The Kremlin identifies Syria as a highly successful—and replicable—operation,” concluded a study published by the Institute for the Study of War, a think-tank, last year. That it was not replicated in Ukraine is probably down to several pathologies: the secrecy with which the Kremlin planned the war, faulty intelligence about Ukraine’s fragility and its will to resist, and the vastly bigger scale of the operation.
Yet the fragmented command structure will have played a role, too. “There is an expectation that their operations will be far better co-ordinated than they were previously,” says the Western official. “We are yet to see evidence of that in terms of what they’re doing, but…we would expect command and control to improve.” General Dvornikov cannot fix everything—morale remains low, officials say, with some Russian units refusing to fight, and manpower is still an issue too—but the coming weeks will show whether he can get the Russian war machine back on track. ■
https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/04/11/russias-invasion-of-ukraine-is-under-new-management
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is under new management
General Alexander Dvornikov is a veteran of Syria’s civil war
Apr 11th 2022
AS THE RUSSIAN invasion of Ukraine stalled in February and March, Western officials scoured the intelligence to work out who was in charge. No one, it seemed. Russia had attacked Ukraine from several axes in the north, east and south. Each of those forces was fighting—and in some cases, losing—its own war. As Russia [url=safari-reader://www.economist.com/briefing/2022/04/02/what-next-for-russia]abandons its assault[/url] on Kyiv for now and focuses instead on the Donbas region and the rest of eastern Ukraine, it is learning from its mistakes. On April 8th a Western official told The Economist and other news organisations that General Alexander Dvornikov, commander of Russia’s southern military district, had been put in charge of operations in Ukraine. Who is he?
General Dvornikov was born in Ussuriysk, a city near the Chinese border in Russia’s far east, in 1961. He graduated from the local military school as a teenager and rose through the ranks in what was then called Russia’s Far Eastern military district, whose main task was to guard against Chinese attack. Like Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, he served in East Germany, leaving with the last Russian forces in 1994. He also fought in the exceptionally brutal second Chechen war at the turn of the millennium. “He accomplished everything smoothly and with hard work, was never anyone’s protégé and moved up the ranks with great difficulty,” a military source told Russian state media in 2016. He was later appointed deputy commander of the Eastern district and then chief of staff of the Central one, which has responsibility for Central Asia.
That led to a career-making posting. In 2015 General Dvornikov became the first commander of Russia’s military campaign in support of Bashar al-Assad, Syria’s dictator. The idea of a small but decisive projection of military power a long way beyond the country’s borders, using air, ground and naval forces, was a novelty for Russia. “The Syrian armed forces had completely exhausted themselves, the personnel were demoralised [and] the officer corps was degraded,” recalled General Dvornikov, years later. Russian involvement “radically changed the situation”.
His success in turning the situation around and rescuing Mr Assad’s regime earned him the Kremlin’s approbation: in 2016 he was made a Hero of the Russian Federation, the country’s highest honour. He also bagged an appointment as commander of the Southern military district. The district is small, but strategic: it abuts Donbas, where Russian forces and their proxies have fought Ukraine since 2014, and where the next phase of the current war is likely to play out. It was this command, and his consequent knowledge of the area, that probably led to his appointment as the point man for Ukraine.
That command also put him on a British sanctions list: he is alleged to have overseen air support for a Russian attack on Ukrainian naval vessels in 2018, which helped Russia consolidate its occupation of Crimea. More troubling still was the conduct of the forces he commanded in Syria. During his first three months in charge, Russian air strikes were estimated to have killed almost 700 members of Islamic State, a jihadist group—but almost 800 civilians, too. Human-rights bodies accuse Russia of using cluster munitions in built-up areas and deliberately striking hospitals around Aleppo, a rebel-held city. In 2020 Human Rights Watch, an NGO, cited General Dvornikov’s Hero of the Russian Federation award as evidence of the “lack of accountability” in Russia’s war.
Heavy civilian casualties were an inevitable byproduct of the strategy General Dvornikov adopted in Syria. In an article published in 2018, he pointed to the difficulty of fighting in mountains, in tunnels under cities and night operations. Firepower was key, he said: air strikes, missiles fired from warships, artillery and, in Aleppo, “constant fire…day and night, without a break”. Psychological warfare was important, too: “without information operations, we would not have been successful in Aleppo, Deir ez-Zor and Ghouta,” said General Dvornikov, referring to urban areas that were all but levelled.
Ironically, given Russia’s woes in Ukraine, the paramount lesson was the importance of unified command. General Dvornikov ran the war from Russia’s headquarters in Khmeimim, an airbase in western Syria, with 15-20 staff. Khmeimim “linked all the elements into a single reconnaissance and strike” system, he noted later. Commanders could talk to one another by video link. Naval officers could co-ordinate strikes by aircraft-carriers against ground targets. Decisions were made quickly.
General Dvornikov is not the only one with this experience. Almost every senior Russian officer has spent time in Syria. Alexander Zhuravlyov and Alexander Chayko, the generals who command Russia’s Western and Eastern military districts respectively, have both commanded Syrian operations twice and have spent longer there than General Dvornikov, notes Rob Lee of King’s College London. But General Dvornikov is “very thoughtful” and “listens to others, contrary to many Russian generals of his rank and generation”, says a source who has met him. He is said to have impressed German officials during a visit to the country some years ago.
A capacity to learn will be vital for Russia’s armed forces. “The Kremlin identifies Syria as a highly successful—and replicable—operation,” concluded a study published by the Institute for the Study of War, a think-tank, last year. That it was not replicated in Ukraine is probably down to several pathologies: the secrecy with which the Kremlin planned the war, faulty intelligence about Ukraine’s fragility and its will to resist, and the vastly bigger scale of the operation.
Yet the fragmented command structure will have played a role, too. “There is an expectation that their operations will be far better co-ordinated than they were previously,” says the Western official. “We are yet to see evidence of that in terms of what they’re doing, but…we would expect command and control to improve.” General Dvornikov cannot fix everything—morale remains low, officials say, with some Russian units refusing to fight, and manpower is still an issue too—but the coming weeks will show whether he can get the Russian war machine back on track. ■
Hektorović- Posts : 26373
2018-04-10
veber-
Posts : 53509
2014-12-30
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
Ti si jedan od rijetkih za koje se ono nemre reći da je trajno glupav, neg mu to izgleda dolazi u periodama. Što je interesantan fenomen, jerbo obično ljudi - ili jesu glupavi, ili nisu.marcellus wrote:Kako ide rat, rusočetnici? Jel Kijev pred padom? Kaćete uhitit Zelenskog? Oće li zapad konačno dignut te sankcije i shvatit da se vi samo borite protiv fašizma? Kako demilitarizacija i denacifikacija? Ima kakvih novih snimki koje "dokazuju" da su to sve lutke i kulise u ukrajini?
Bit će profesionalna deformacija od pisanja tekstova koje ionak niko normalan ne čita.
_________________
I ask not for a lighter burden, but for broader shoulders.
AlfaOmega- Posts : 10386
2015-09-11
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
veber wrote:pa ovaj izgleda kao vojnik.
Definitivno izgleda kao General, za razliku od krmka Surovikina.
Hektorović- Posts : 26373
2018-04-10
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
Hektorović wrote:The Economist ima dobar profil generala Dvornikova koji preuzima vođenje operacije od Surovikina.
https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/04/11/russias-invasion-of-ukraine-is-under-new-management
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is under new management
General Dvornikov rođen je u Ussurijsku, gradu blizu kineske granice na dalekom istoku Rusije, 1961. godine. Završio je lokalnu vojnu školu kao tinejdžer i napredovao kroz činove u tadašnjoj ruskoj Dalekoistočnoj vojnoj oblasti, čiji je glavni zadatak trebao se zaštititi od kineskog napada. Poput Vladimira Putina, ruskog predsjednika, služio je u Istočnoj Njemačkoj, otišao je s posljednjim ruskim snagama 1994. Također se borio u iznimno brutalnom drugom čečenskom ratu na prijelazu tisućljeća. "Sve je postigao glatko i teškim radom, nikada nije bio ničiji štićenik i teškom se mukom popeo u redove", rekao je vojni izvor ruskim državnim medijima 2016. godine. Kasnije je imenovan zamjenikom zapovjednika Istočnog okruga, a potom i načelnikom stožera središnji, koji je odgovoran za središnju Aziju.
To je dovelo do objave za stvaranje karijere. Godine 2015. general Dvornikov postao je prvi zapovjednik ruske vojne kampanje podrške Basharu al-Assadu, sirijskom diktatoru. Ideja o maloj, ali odlučnoj projekciji vojne moći daleko izvan granica zemlje, korištenjem zračnih, kopnenih i pomorskih snaga, bila je novost za Rusiju. “Sirijske oružane snage potpuno su se iscrpile, osoblje je bilo demoralizirano i časnički zbor degradiran”, prisjetio se general Dvornikov godinama kasnije. Rusko sudjelovanje "radikalno je promijenilo situaciju".
Njegov uspjeh u preokretu situacije i spašavanju Assadovog režima donio mu je odobravanje Kremlja: 2016. godine proglašen je Herojem Ruske Federacije, što je najveća čast u zemlji. Također je dobio imenovanje za zapovjednika Južnog vojnog okruga. Okrug je mali, ali strateški: prislonjen je na Donbas, gdje se ruske snage i njihovi opunomoćenici bore protiv Ukrajine od 2014. i gdje će se vjerojatno odigrati sljedeća faza sadašnjeg rata. Upravo je to zapovjedništvo, i njegovo posljedično poznavanje područja, vjerojatno doveli do njegovog imenovanja za glavnog čovjeka za Ukrajinu.
Ta ga je zapovjedništvo također stavila na britanski popis sankcija: navodno je nadzirao zračnu potporu ruskom napadu na ukrajinska pomorska plovila 2018., što je pomoglo Rusiji da konsolidira svoju okupaciju Krima. Još je više zabrinjavajuće bilo ponašanje snaga kojima je zapovijedao u Siriji. Procjenjuje se da je tijekom njegova prva tri mjeseca na čelu, ruski zračni napadi ubili gotovo 700 pripadnika Islamske države, džihadističke skupine, ali i gotovo 800 civila. Tijela za ljudska prava optužuju Rusiju da koristi kasetno streljivo u naseljenim područjima i namjerno napada bolnice oko Alepa, grada koji drže pobunjenici. Nevladina organizacija Human Rights Watch 2020. navela je nagradu Heroja Ruske Federacije generala Dvornikova kao dokaz "nedostatka odgovornosti" u ratu u Rusiji.
Teške civilne žrtve bile su neizbježan nusprodukt strategije koju je general Dvornikov usvojio u Siriji. U članku objavljenom 2018. ukazao je na poteškoće borbe u planinama, tunelima ispod gradova i noćnim operacijama. Vatrena moć je bila ključna, rekao je: zračni napadi, projektili ispaljeni s ratnih brodova, topništvo i, u Alepu, "stalna vatra... danju i noću, bez prekida". Psihološki rat je također bio važan: "bez informacijskih operacija ne bismo bili uspješni u Alepu, Deir ez-Zoru i Ghouti", rekao je general Dvornikov, misleći na urbana područja koja su bila samo sravnjena.
Ironično, s obzirom na ruske nevolje u Ukrajini, najvažnija lekcija bila je važnost ujedinjenog zapovijedanja. General Dvornikov je vodio rat iz ruskog stožera Khmeimim, zračna baza u zapadnoj Siriji, s 15-20 djelatnika. Khmeimim je "povezao sve elemente u jedinstveni sustav za izviđanje i udar", primijetio je kasnije. Zapovjednici su mogli razgovarati jedni s drugima putem video veze. Pomorski časnici mogli su koordinirati udare nosača zrakoplova na kopnene ciljeve. Odluke su se donosile brzo.
General Dvornikov nije jedini s takvim iskustvom. Gotovo svaki viši ruski časnik boravio je u Siriji. Alexander Zhuravlyov i Alexander Chayko, generali koji zapovijedaju zapadnim i istočnim vojnim okruzima Rusije, obojica su dvaput zapovijedali sirijskim operacijama i tamo su proveli duže od generala Dvornikova, primjećuje Rob Lee s King's Collegea u Londonu. Ali general Dvornikov je “vrlo promišljen” i “sluša druge, za razliku od mnogih ruskih generala njegovog ranga i generacije”, kaže izvor koji ga je upoznao. Navodi se da je impresionirao njemačke dužnosnike tijekom posjeta toj zemlji prije nekoliko godina.
Sposobnost učenja bit će od vitalnog značaja za ruske oružane snage. “Kremlj identificira Siriju kao vrlo uspješnu – i repliciranu – operaciju”, zaključuje se u studiji koju je prošle godine objavio Institut za proučavanje rata, think-tank. To što nije replicirano u Ukrajini vjerojatno je posljedica nekoliko patologija: tajnovitosti kojom je Kremlj planirao rat, pogrešnih obavještajnih podataka o krhkosti Ukrajine i njezinoj volji za otporom, te znatno većim razmjerima operacije.
Ipak, fragmentirana zapovjedna struktura također će odigrati svoju ulogu. "Očekuje se da će njihove operacije biti daleko bolje koordinirane nego što su bile prije", kaže zapadni dužnosnik. "Još ne vidimo dokaze za to u smislu onoga što rade, ali... očekivali bismo da se zapovijedanje i kontrola poboljšaju." General Dvornikov ne može sve popraviti – moral je i dalje nizak, kažu dužnosnici, s nekim ruskim postrojbama koje odbijaju boriti se, a ljudstvo je također problem – ali idući tjedni pokazat će može li vratiti ruski ratni stroj na pravi put.
RayMabus- Posts : 184105
2014-04-11
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
Čini se da su Rusi iz Kherson Oblasti ušli u Dnipropetrovsk Oblast kod Veselyi Stav-a.
_________________
I ask not for a lighter burden, but for broader shoulders.
AlfaOmega- Posts : 10386
2015-09-11
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
Taj im je za drugaricu Komšić jer je Sattler ( izaslanik EU, čitaj Borelija i Soroševe žgadije ) izjavio ovo nikidan :Hektorović wrote:veber wrote:pa ovaj izgleda kao vojnik.
Definitivno izgleda kao General, za razliku od krmka Surovikina.
08.04.2022.
Šef Delegacije EU u Bosni i Hercegovini Johann Sattler tokom gostovanja u emisiji "U fokusu" na OBN-u rekao je će se da više nema prostora za dogovor o Izbornom zakonu i da Opći izbori u oktobru održati.
U vezi najava pojedinih političara iz HDZ-a i Hrvatske da bi se pregovori mogli nastaviti u Briselu Sattler je kazao da se taj prostor i šansa zatvara.
"Ne vidim više logiku za još jednu rundu pregovora. U krajnjem slučaju intenzivno smo u proteklih devet, deset mjeseci imali šest krugova pregovora, dan, noć vikend. Ja ne vidim trenutačno obrazloženje da se pokreće još jedna runda pregovora", kazao je Sattler.
SOROŠ ; Ne vidim logiku da se otvara još jedna runda pregovora o izbornoj reformi
Sve su napravili da pregovori propadnu a sad kao nemaju prostora.
SAD ĆU VAM GA JA DATI.
RayMabus- Posts : 184105
2014-04-11
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
očito da i pojava šalje sliku o čovjeku.Hektorović wrote:veber wrote:pa ovaj izgleda kao vojnik.
Definitivno izgleda kao General, za razliku od krmka Surovikina.
nije bitna debljina ili mršavost.
pogledaj churchilla.
pa i staljina.
za razliku od musolinija
veber-
Posts : 53509
2014-12-30
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
veber wrote:očito da i pojava šalje sliku o čovjeku.Hektorović wrote:veber wrote:pa ovaj izgleda kao vojnik.
Definitivno izgleda kao General, za razliku od krmka Surovikina.
nije bitna debljina ili mršavost.
pogledaj churchilla.
pa i staljina.
za razliku od musolinija
Svi navedeni su bili idioti koji kad su se miješali direktno u vojne operacije redom su to bile katastrofe.
Chruchill (Galipolli,Grčka,Dieppe,Market-Garden).
Staljin (Minsk,Kiev,Stryj)
Mussolini (Somalia,Etopia,Libija).
Sve redom operacije u kojima nisu dozvolili zapovjednicima da imaju zadnju negu su se sami mijesali ili ih osmislili i sve redom bile katastrofe za njihove vojske.
Bolje prepustiti onima koji su se skolovali za rat
Guest- Guest
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
veber wrote:jesu, jesu.MDMiridije wrote:veber wrote:znam da im je poslano 6 borbenih helikoptera-UHT.MDMiridije wrote:veber wrote:zelelensky ga je odkantao iz drugog razloga, iz istog zbog kojeg merkelica šuti.kaya wrote:Ovdje puštam vodu.MDMiridije wrote:Inace eno njemacka ministrica vanjskih poslova jasno & glasno istakla da sve zemlje koje razmisljaju o pristupanju EU ce morati uskladiti vanjsku politiku prema vanjskoj politici EU i prije pristupanja uniji. To se odnosi i na sankcije. Pogotovo je istakla tu Srbiju.
BILD je objavio, pozivajući se na izvore iz ukrajinske vlade, da je njemački predsjednik Frank-Walter Steinmeier planirao posjetiti Kijev, ali da je Zelenskij odbio sastanak.
"Bio sam spreman na to. Ali to, očito moram priznati, nije bilo poželjno u Kijevu", prenosi Bild riječi njemačkog predsjednika.
Znači, mislio se švabo umiti malo u kijevu, a sutra dati putinu opet miljardicu.
Al je dobio marš od zelenog..
(samo isto tako zelenski ne odbija njemačku pomoć-od novca pa do vrlo modernog oružja. malo je zaboravio da je njemačka odobrila deset milijardi eura vojne pomoći direktno ukrajini.)
Kojeg vrlo modernog naoruzanja veberu?
u donauworthu nema do daljnjeg civilne proizvodnje.
vjerovatno da su svi opremljeni.
s obzirom na novi model vjerovatno će netko iz nato upravljati s njima.
možda se ne čini puno, ali to su najmoderniji na svijetu s opemom je preko 60milja komad.
vjerovatno će luftwafe prepustiti njihova četiri koji su trebali biti isporučeni krajem svibnja.
Unterstützungshubschrauber Tiger? Bogami im nisu te slali. Barem do sada nisu.
i vjerovatno ova 4 za bundeshwer će im dati.
upitno je samo tko će upravljati s njima.
Nema ali baš nikakve teorije. Piloti za upravljati s time se uce po dvije godine. Skup helikopter i potpuno beskoristan ukoliko strana koja se bori nema cistu situaciju u zraku. Bas nikakve teorije nema da im to posalju.
Guest- Guest
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
Prije ce biti, pogotovo ako se ovo razduzi jos....da cemo mi i slovenija poslati sto imamo od M84...uz obecanje nekog polovnog tenka kojeg se ne zeli slati u Ukrainu. Jos tko ima nesto ex-sovjetsko ili slicno ce takoder zavrsiti tamo. (lako moguce nase strele i s vremenom grcki Pzo sustavi ruskog-sovjetskog podrijetla). Sve ce to biti prije puno nego sto ce im krenuti davati full-tilt zapadnu opremu.
Guest- Guest
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
Sad će Bata Živojinović sve da ih kara.
RayMabus- Posts : 184105
2014-04-11
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
Ukrajinski predsjednik Volodimir Zelenski objavio je na svojem profilu na Telegramu fotografiju proruskog političara i medijskog tajkuna Viktora Medvedčuka, koji se spominjao kao jedan od Putinovih favorita za preuzimanje vlasti u Kijevu u slučaju pada aktualne administracije.
- Naš SBU je izveo specijalnu operaciju. Svaka čast! Više detalja kasnije. Slava Ukrajini!, napisao je Zelenski uz fotografiju Medvedčuka odjevenog u maskirnu uniformu ukrajinske vojske.
Ukrajinska sigurnosna služba to objašnjava njegovom namjerom da se "preruši".
- Naš SBU je izveo specijalnu operaciju. Svaka čast! Više detalja kasnije. Slava Ukrajini!, napisao je Zelenski uz fotografiju Medvedčuka odjevenog u maskirnu uniformu ukrajinske vojske.
Ukrajinska sigurnosna služba to objašnjava njegovom namjerom da se "preruši".
RayMabus- Posts : 184105
2014-04-11
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
I nije im cilj da troše pare na naoružanje. Ovde su zalog životi Ukrajinaca a oni su besplatni.MDMiridije wrote:Prije ce biti, pogotovo ako se ovo razduzi jos....da cemo mi i slovenija poslati sto imamo od M84...uz obecanje nekog polovnog tenka kojeg se ne zeli slati u Ukrainu. Jos tko ima nesto ex-sovjetsko ili slicno ce takoder zavrsiti tamo. (lako moguce nase strele i s vremenom grcki Pzo sustavi ruskog-sovjetskog podrijetla). Sve ce to biti prije puno nego sto ce im krenuti davati full-tilt zapadnu opremu.
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dzango- Posts : 28141
2014-04-19
Lokacija: : Velika Srbija
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
dzango wrote:I nije im cilj da troše pare na naoružanje. Ovde su zalog životi Ukrajinaca a oni su besplatni.MDMiridije wrote:Prije ce biti, pogotovo ako se ovo razduzi jos....da cemo mi i slovenija poslati sto imamo od M84...uz obecanje nekog polovnog tenka kojeg se ne zeli slati u Ukrainu. Jos tko ima nesto ex-sovjetsko ili slicno ce takoder zavrsiti tamo. (lako moguce nase strele i s vremenom grcki Pzo sustavi ruskog-sovjetskog podrijetla). Sve ce to biti prije puno nego sto ce im krenuti davati full-tilt zapadnu opremu.
Ovdje je zalog pomoći Ukraincima koje je napala nacija divljaka i barbara
Guest- Guest
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
A da. Zaboravio sam mantru.MDMiridije wrote:dzango wrote:I nije im cilj da troše pare na naoružanje. Ovde su zalog životi Ukrajinaca a oni su besplatni.MDMiridije wrote:Prije ce biti, pogotovo ako se ovo razduzi jos....da cemo mi i slovenija poslati sto imamo od M84...uz obecanje nekog polovnog tenka kojeg se ne zeli slati u Ukrainu. Jos tko ima nesto ex-sovjetsko ili slicno ce takoder zavrsiti tamo. (lako moguce nase strele i s vremenom grcki Pzo sustavi ruskog-sovjetskog podrijetla). Sve ce to biti prije puno nego sto ce im krenuti davati full-tilt zapadnu opremu.
Ovdje je zalog pomoći Ukraincima koje je napala nacija divljaka i barbara
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dzango- Posts : 28141
2014-04-19
Lokacija: : Velika Srbija
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
Putin je odlučio da će ovaj rat dobiti bez obzira koliko to Rusiju koštalo u novcu i životima, a to je nešto čega Zelenski mora biti svjestan jer i njegovi pomagači su spremni ratovati "do zadnjeg Ukrajinca"
Putin car.
Putin : Soroš = 1 : 0
Putin car.
Putin : Soroš = 1 : 0
RayMabus- Posts : 184105
2014-04-11
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
Do poslednjjeg Ukrajinca. A onda će da sednu za sto i dogovore se o cenama nafte i gasa. Posao je to.RayMabus wrote:Putin je odlučio da će ovaj rat dobiti bez obzira koliko to Rusiju koštalo u novcu i životima, a to je nešto čega Zelenski mora biti svjestan jer i njegovi pomagači su spremni ratovati "do zadnjeg Ukrajinca"
Putin car.
Putin : Soroš = 1 : 0
_________________
dzango- Posts : 28141
2014-04-19
Lokacija: : Velika Srbija
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
usrana plavusha i novinar dezerter su mi rekli da sam četnik. pa jebote kak ću to preživjet.
slava geroiem? hoćete me primit nazad u hrvate?
slava geroiem? hoćete me primit nazad u hrvate?
Guest- Guest
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
dzango wrote:Do poslednjjeg Ukrajinca. A onda će da sednu za sto i dogovore se o cenama nafte i gasa. Posao je to.RayMabus wrote:Putin je odlučio da će ovaj rat dobiti bez obzira koliko to Rusiju koštalo u novcu i životima, a to je nešto čega Zelenski mora biti svjestan jer i njegovi pomagači su spremni ratovati "do zadnjeg Ukrajinca"
Putin car.
Putin : Soroš = 1 : 0
A kog brige i za jedne i za druge ?
Mene ti samo zanima izborni zakon u BiH i šta ja oću i TOČKA.
RayMabus- Posts : 184105
2014-04-11
Re: Ruska invazija na Ukrajinu
di je onaj debeli sa čakijiom da se fotkaju za twiter? jebote, koja parodija od države :/RayMabus wrote:Ukrajinski predsjednik Volodimir Zelenski objavio je na svojem profilu na Telegramu fotografiju proruskog političara i medijskog tajkuna Viktora Medvedčuka, koji se spominjao kao jedan od Putinovih favorita za preuzimanje vlasti u Kijevu u slučaju pada aktualne administracije.
- Naš SBU je izveo specijalnu operaciju. Svaka čast! Više detalja kasnije. Slava Ukrajini!, napisao je Zelenski uz fotografiju Medvedčuka odjevenog u maskirnu uniformu ukrajinske vojske.
Ukrajinska sigurnosna služba to objašnjava njegovom namjerom da se "preruši".
Guest- Guest
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