Denkverbot
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Re: Denkverbot
Viola, kao da te vidim u ovoj pjesmi:
William Wordsworth
Sjaj u travi
Sada, kada ništa na svijetu na može
vratiti dane prohujalog ljeta,
naš sjaj u travi i blještavost svijeta, ne
treba tugovati,
već tražiti snage u onom što je ostalo i s tim
živjeti.
Zaboravimo, ne radi nas, ne radi zaborava,
zaboravimo da smo se voljeli, da smo se svađali i
da smo bili krivi
Požurimo s danima i danima što će doći
požurimo sa shvaćanjima, sa svim što me
odvaja od tebe.
Jednom ćeš se vratiti i ubrati cvjetove
koje smo zajedno mirisali i gazili
ali, tvoje ruke bit će prekratke, a noge
premorene da se vratiš, bit će kasno.
Možda ćemo se naći jedanput na malom
vrhu života i neizrečene tajne,
htjet ćemo jedno drugom reći, al' proći
ćemo jedno kraj drugog kao stranci.
Jedan skrenuti pogled bit će sve što ćemo
jedno drugome moći dati.
Zaboravit ću oči
i neću promatrati zvijezde koje me na
tebe neobično podsjećaju.
Ne boj se, jednom ćeš se zaljubiti,
al' ljubit ćeš zato što će te nešto na toj ženi podsjećati na mene.
Ne otkrivaj svoje srce ljudima jer u njima vlada kob i egoizam!
Život je borba - nastoj pobijediti,
ali ako izgubiš - ne smiješ tugovati.
Cilj života je ljubav - a ona traži žrtve
Bio si moje veliko proljeće,
uspomena koja će dugo živjeti u budućnosti,
koje ću se sjećati.
Osjećat ću tugu jer sam tebe voljela,
bit će to ironija tuge
Nestat će sjaja u travi,
nestat će veličanstvenost svijeta.
Ostat će samo blijeda slika onoga što je prošlo
William Wordsworth
Sjaj u travi
Sada, kada ništa na svijetu na može
vratiti dane prohujalog ljeta,
naš sjaj u travi i blještavost svijeta, ne
treba tugovati,
već tražiti snage u onom što je ostalo i s tim
živjeti.
Zaboravimo, ne radi nas, ne radi zaborava,
zaboravimo da smo se voljeli, da smo se svađali i
da smo bili krivi
Požurimo s danima i danima što će doći
požurimo sa shvaćanjima, sa svim što me
odvaja od tebe.
Jednom ćeš se vratiti i ubrati cvjetove
koje smo zajedno mirisali i gazili
ali, tvoje ruke bit će prekratke, a noge
premorene da se vratiš, bit će kasno.
Možda ćemo se naći jedanput na malom
vrhu života i neizrečene tajne,
htjet ćemo jedno drugom reći, al' proći
ćemo jedno kraj drugog kao stranci.
Jedan skrenuti pogled bit će sve što ćemo
jedno drugome moći dati.
Zaboravit ću oči
i neću promatrati zvijezde koje me na
tebe neobično podsjećaju.
Ne boj se, jednom ćeš se zaljubiti,
al' ljubit ćeš zato što će te nešto na toj ženi podsjećati na mene.
Ne otkrivaj svoje srce ljudima jer u njima vlada kob i egoizam!
Život je borba - nastoj pobijediti,
ali ako izgubiš - ne smiješ tugovati.
Cilj života je ljubav - a ona traži žrtve
Bio si moje veliko proljeće,
uspomena koja će dugo živjeti u budućnosti,
koje ću se sjećati.
Osjećat ću tugu jer sam tebe voljela,
bit će to ironija tuge
Nestat će sjaja u travi,
nestat će veličanstvenost svijeta.
Ostat će samo blijeda slika onoga što je prošlo
mativka- Posts : 5957
2018-08-07
Re: Denkverbot
mativka wrote:Viola, kao da te vidim u ovoj pjesmi:
William Wordsworth
Sjaj u travi
Sada, kada ništa na svijetu na može
vratiti dane prohujalog ljeta,
naš sjaj u travi i blještavost svijeta, ne
treba tugovati,
već tražiti snage u onom što je ostalo i s tim
živjeti.
Zaboravimo, ne radi nas, ne radi zaborava,
zaboravimo da smo se voljeli, da smo se svađali i
da smo bili krivi
Požurimo s danima i danima što će doći
požurimo sa shvaćanjima, sa svim što me
odvaja od tebe.
Jednom ćeš se vratiti i ubrati cvjetove
koje smo zajedno mirisali i gazili
ali, tvoje ruke bit će prekratke, a noge
premorene da se vratiš, bit će kasno.
Možda ćemo se naći jedanput na malom
vrhu života i neizrečene tajne,
htjet ćemo jedno drugom reći, al' proći
ćemo jedno kraj drugog kao stranci.
Jedan skrenuti pogled bit će sve što ćemo
jedno drugome moći dati.
Zaboravit ću oči
i neću promatrati zvijezde koje me na
tebe neobično podsjećaju.
Ne boj se, jednom ćeš se zaljubiti,
al' ljubit ćeš zato što će te nešto na toj ženi podsjećati na mene.
Ne otkrivaj svoje srce ljudima jer u njima vlada kob i egoizam!
Život je borba - nastoj pobijediti,
ali ako izgubiš - ne smiješ tugovati.
Cilj života je ljubav - a ona traži žrtve
Bio si moje veliko proljeće,
uspomena koja će dugo živjeti u budućnosti,
koje ću se sjećati.
Osjećat ću tugu jer sam tebe voljela,
bit će to ironija tuge
Nestat će sjaja u travi,
nestat će veličanstvenost svijeta.
Ostat će samo blijeda slika onoga što je prošlo
ovo me podsjetilo na jednu drugu narcisoidnu pjesmu. ček' samo tren...
Guest- Guest
Re: Denkverbot
This poem must be the favorite poem of narcissists and abusers everywhere.
Now, for your reading enjoyment – scratch that – just fetch a bucket because you might vomit – I present It Matters Not.
It matters not if I’ve been hurt;
It matters not at all,
That sometimes from my weary eyes,
The scalding tear drops fall.
What matters most is if I’ve erred
And not confessed the sin
And through my lack – some needy soul
Has failed to follow Him.
It matters not if cherished friends,
On whom I lean in vain,
Have wounded me by deed and word
And left me with my pain.
What matters is – Can I forgive –
Again and yet again?
It’s not “have they been true,” but Lord-
Have I been true to them?
Now, for your reading enjoyment – scratch that – just fetch a bucket because you might vomit – I present It Matters Not.
It matters not if I’ve been hurt;
It matters not at all,
That sometimes from my weary eyes,
The scalding tear drops fall.
What matters most is if I’ve erred
And not confessed the sin
And through my lack – some needy soul
Has failed to follow Him.
It matters not if cherished friends,
On whom I lean in vain,
Have wounded me by deed and word
And left me with my pain.
What matters is – Can I forgive –
Again and yet again?
It’s not “have they been true,” but Lord-
Have I been true to them?
Guest- Guest
Re: Denkverbot
A poem this fucked up, deserves a proper postmortem!
Everybody ready?
Argumentum ad Poetica
Just because a dogma is enshrined in poetry (or song!), doesn’t mean it’s not complete malarkey. Oh, it sounds so good, doesn’t it!? That nice rhythm – the rhymed couplets – ABCB.
It reminds me of the logical fallacy called Argument from Authority (argumentum ad verecundiam). Well, Argument from Poetry is just as false! I call it argumentum ad poetica (which is probably making Latin scholars everywhere cringe. Hey! Google Translate’s all I got.)
But seriously, just because words have rhythm and rhyme doesn’t mean they’re not shit — make that, diddly-shit! Take that schoolyard ditty for example:
Sticks and stones
May break my bones
But words
Will never hurt me.
What utter nonsense! Bruises and fractures will heal. Words are never forgotten, never cease to hurt, haunt us to our graves. I prefer what my therapist told me:
Kind words are silk,
Mean words are Velcro.
In other words, unkind words stick forever. It doesn’t rhyme – but it’s true! C’mon! We all know it, we all experience it, no matter how tough our swagger. Until death or Alzheimer’s, whichever comes first, cruel words remain in our memory. We can heal, we can apply the balm of truth but mean words can and will always hurt us. Why? Because words have meaning. You can’t exempt meaning from the cruel words, leaving only kind words to be meaningful.
Feelings Don’t Matter
This is like Trick #1 from the narcissists’ hive-mind playbook. A lesson my father taught me since childhood: feelings/emotions don’t matter. Oh, by the way, he meant my emotions. (Anger, as we all know, is not considered an emotion by narcissists, as long as it’s their own.)
To narcissists, our emotions have no validity. They’re merely pesky dramatics that put a stick in the spokes of their agenda for us. Now their emotions! That’s a whole ‘nother story!
The poem says exactly that. A friend is a friend is a friend no matter how badly they treat us. So suck it up, Buttercup! Only ungodly people leave the sacredness of a friendship. Tsk, tsk, tsk!
And speaking of God, I feel sorry for Him! People put a lot of nonsense in His mouth. That poem is a perfect example of the kind of Phariseeism Jesus fought tooth and nail during his ministry.
Ignoratio elenchi
Just when the poem started playing the “God card” we realize we’re seeing another logical fallacy: a red herring. Logicallyfallacious.com defines a red herring (Ignoratio elenchi) as “a deliberate diversion of attention with the intention of trying to abandon the original argument.”
Your friend hurt you…oh wait! You must’ve done something wrong, sometime in your life. Down on your knees and grovel, you filthy wrrrrrrrrrrretch. Someone, somewhere, sometime may go to Hell because of you. How dare you dump a bad friend “on whom you lean in vain” when you have a speck in your own eye. Forgive seventy-times-seven. (insert sound of Bible-thumping here)
Well, guess what!?! There’s a difference between humility and stupidity. There’s a difference between being forgiving and being a gullible weenie! Nowhere does the Bible tell us to be pathetic knowing victims. What was that…something about “so be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves.” (Matt. 10:16 J. B. Phillips)
My point!
And last, but not least…
Argumentum ad Amicitia
I made that logical fallacy up too. It translates “the argument from friendship.”
Since when was so-called “friendship” as sacred as marriage!?! It must be early onset Alzheimers, because I just can’t remember holding my friend’s hands, staring into her eyes and vowing before God to “love, honor and cherish” her.
Friends are like sailboats. They drift in and out of our lives. If we discover we have, yet again, befriended narcissists there is no shame, no guilt in trimming our sails to glide into safer harbors.
But not if you mistake that poem for Gospel! Not if you’re a narcissist who sees their friends as resources. Then, ending a friendship with them is paramount to, lemme think, ah yes! Being Benedict Arnold or Judas Iscariot.
Finis
I know we’re not supposed to exact revenge, none of that eye-for-an-eye, tooth-for-a-tooth thing. But what about poetry?
Here now is my rebutal to It Matters Not.
It Matters So
It matters so that I’ve been hurt
By words you now repudiate.
I bit my tongue so many times
So I did not reciprocate.
To sail away, go with the tide
To drift on quiet seas.
Was all I asked of thee and thou
But it was not to be!
With crash of waves and howl of winds
Down your halo you threw
Whipped out your three-pronged trident
And screamed up a hullabaloo!
Our friendship dashed on rocky shores
Of unkind words you said.
I have forgiven; I won’t forget
And now our friendship is dead.
This concludes the after poetry discussion. You’ll find coffee and cookies in the narthex. This has been a wonderful discussion and you’ve been a wonderful audience!
Thanks for reading!
Everybody ready?
Argumentum ad Poetica
Just because a dogma is enshrined in poetry (or song!), doesn’t mean it’s not complete malarkey. Oh, it sounds so good, doesn’t it!? That nice rhythm – the rhymed couplets – ABCB.
It reminds me of the logical fallacy called Argument from Authority (argumentum ad verecundiam). Well, Argument from Poetry is just as false! I call it argumentum ad poetica (which is probably making Latin scholars everywhere cringe. Hey! Google Translate’s all I got.)
But seriously, just because words have rhythm and rhyme doesn’t mean they’re not shit — make that, diddly-shit! Take that schoolyard ditty for example:
Sticks and stones
May break my bones
But words
Will never hurt me.
What utter nonsense! Bruises and fractures will heal. Words are never forgotten, never cease to hurt, haunt us to our graves. I prefer what my therapist told me:
Kind words are silk,
Mean words are Velcro.
In other words, unkind words stick forever. It doesn’t rhyme – but it’s true! C’mon! We all know it, we all experience it, no matter how tough our swagger. Until death or Alzheimer’s, whichever comes first, cruel words remain in our memory. We can heal, we can apply the balm of truth but mean words can and will always hurt us. Why? Because words have meaning. You can’t exempt meaning from the cruel words, leaving only kind words to be meaningful.
Feelings Don’t Matter
This is like Trick #1 from the narcissists’ hive-mind playbook. A lesson my father taught me since childhood: feelings/emotions don’t matter. Oh, by the way, he meant my emotions. (Anger, as we all know, is not considered an emotion by narcissists, as long as it’s their own.)
To narcissists, our emotions have no validity. They’re merely pesky dramatics that put a stick in the spokes of their agenda for us. Now their emotions! That’s a whole ‘nother story!
The poem says exactly that. A friend is a friend is a friend no matter how badly they treat us. So suck it up, Buttercup! Only ungodly people leave the sacredness of a friendship. Tsk, tsk, tsk!
And speaking of God, I feel sorry for Him! People put a lot of nonsense in His mouth. That poem is a perfect example of the kind of Phariseeism Jesus fought tooth and nail during his ministry.
Ignoratio elenchi
Just when the poem started playing the “God card” we realize we’re seeing another logical fallacy: a red herring. Logicallyfallacious.com defines a red herring (Ignoratio elenchi) as “a deliberate diversion of attention with the intention of trying to abandon the original argument.”
Your friend hurt you…oh wait! You must’ve done something wrong, sometime in your life. Down on your knees and grovel, you filthy wrrrrrrrrrrretch. Someone, somewhere, sometime may go to Hell because of you. How dare you dump a bad friend “on whom you lean in vain” when you have a speck in your own eye. Forgive seventy-times-seven. (insert sound of Bible-thumping here)
Well, guess what!?! There’s a difference between humility and stupidity. There’s a difference between being forgiving and being a gullible weenie! Nowhere does the Bible tell us to be pathetic knowing victims. What was that…something about “so be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves.” (Matt. 10:16 J. B. Phillips)
My point!
And last, but not least…
Argumentum ad Amicitia
I made that logical fallacy up too. It translates “the argument from friendship.”
Since when was so-called “friendship” as sacred as marriage!?! It must be early onset Alzheimers, because I just can’t remember holding my friend’s hands, staring into her eyes and vowing before God to “love, honor and cherish” her.
Friends are like sailboats. They drift in and out of our lives. If we discover we have, yet again, befriended narcissists there is no shame, no guilt in trimming our sails to glide into safer harbors.
But not if you mistake that poem for Gospel! Not if you’re a narcissist who sees their friends as resources. Then, ending a friendship with them is paramount to, lemme think, ah yes! Being Benedict Arnold or Judas Iscariot.
Finis
I know we’re not supposed to exact revenge, none of that eye-for-an-eye, tooth-for-a-tooth thing. But what about poetry?
Here now is my rebutal to It Matters Not.
It Matters So
It matters so that I’ve been hurt
By words you now repudiate.
I bit my tongue so many times
So I did not reciprocate.
To sail away, go with the tide
To drift on quiet seas.
Was all I asked of thee and thou
But it was not to be!
With crash of waves and howl of winds
Down your halo you threw
Whipped out your three-pronged trident
And screamed up a hullabaloo!
Our friendship dashed on rocky shores
Of unkind words you said.
I have forgiven; I won’t forget
And now our friendship is dead.
This concludes the after poetry discussion. You’ll find coffee and cookies in the narthex. This has been a wonderful discussion and you’ve been a wonderful audience!
Thanks for reading!
Guest- Guest
Re: Denkverbot
Ja sam osoba iz ruralnih područja i poznajem samo jednostavan govor.
_________________
On & On
mativka- Posts : 5957
2018-08-07
mativka- Posts : 5957
2018-08-07
Re: Denkverbot
Hahahaha,kic wrote:
poetrify yourself..
sad će abendo doć s natpisom preko majice: DAS GAY
I ja si nešto tako mislim :)
_________________
On & On
mativka- Posts : 5957
2018-08-07
Re: Denkverbot
kic wrote:mativka wrote:Sloboda govora i djelovanje nije isto.kic wrote:
https://www.katolik20.com/2020/06/15/batarelo-djeni-mac-u-korice/
Vrijeđati, istina, nije lijepo, ali zapravo šteti samo sirovini koja tako komunicira. Štoviše, bez slobode govora (pa i vrijeđanja), mogli smo ostati u zabludi da se radi o ozbiljnim opinion-makerima, a ne o intelektualcima kojima je vrhunac društvene kritike procesiju za križem opisati kao „nanašanje nekog kurca“.
Drag si mi, ali zapitaj se o svojim postupcima.
ali ovo je ipak virtualno djelovanje
uvreda ili prijetnja uživo nosi sa sobom blisku realizaciju, ovdje je ovo čisti zrak, zapis na ekranu, od kojeg ne osjećamo nikakav strah, možda odbojnost i gnušanje.. ali gdje je granica gnušanja onda? bolje je ne povlačit' onda puno ako nismo sigurno, a ja nisam.
ako je ovo samo virtualni prostor u kojemu nema realnih uvreda ili prijetnji onda treba u tome stavu biti dosljedan pa ne sankcionirati nikoga (ban za mortalku je onda bio besmislen) nit bit policajac na temama .. svi imamo svu slobodu i prava pisati svasta i svugdje i vrijedjati svacije pisanje i svakoga.. slazeš li se sa ovim? aben bi se svakako slozio..
osobna gnusanja ostavljamo po strani
Guest- Guest
Re: Denkverbot
Ako smo dobri i ja tebi: kmeee, kmee, moguće je nešto...i ti reagiraš, a ne na ono što se događa..ne mogu shvatiti ozbiljno.
_________________
On & On
mativka- Posts : 5957
2018-08-07
Re: Denkverbot
mativka wrote:I ja se slažem s Metildom.
Znas kako je lijepo van u mojoj sjenici okruzenoj malinama.. sjedim i telefoniram i jedem maline... mljac ..
Guest- Guest
Re: Denkverbot
metilda wrote:kic wrote:mativka wrote:Sloboda govora i djelovanje nije isto.kic wrote:
https://www.katolik20.com/2020/06/15/batarelo-djeni-mac-u-korice/
Vrijeđati, istina, nije lijepo, ali zapravo šteti samo sirovini koja tako komunicira. Štoviše, bez slobode govora (pa i vrijeđanja), mogli smo ostati u zabludi da se radi o ozbiljnim opinion-makerima, a ne o intelektualcima kojima je vrhunac društvene kritike procesiju za križem opisati kao „nanašanje nekog kurca“.
Drag si mi, ali zapitaj se o svojim postupcima.
ali ovo je ipak virtualno djelovanje
uvreda ili prijetnja uživo nosi sa sobom blisku realizaciju, ovdje je ovo čisti zrak, zapis na ekranu, od kojeg ne osjećamo nikakav strah, možda odbojnost i gnušanje.. ali gdje je granica gnušanja onda? bolje je ne povlačit' onda puno ako nismo sigurno, a ja nisam.
ako je ovo samo virtualni prostor u kojemu nema realnih uvreda ili prijetnji onda treba u tome stavu biti dosljedan pa ne sankcionirati nikoga (ban za mortalku je onda bio besmislen) nit bit policajac na temama .. svi imamo svu slobodu i prava pisati svasta i svugdje i vrijedjati svacije pisanje i svakoga.. slazeš li se sa ovim? aben bi se svakako slozio..
osobna gnusanja ostavljamo po strani
nekad i hlađenja mora biti, više za dobro te osobe koja se zaletila..
a gnječ je stalno u galopu tako da :D
Re: Denkverbot
Volim masline. ..sir, pršut..metilda wrote:mativka wrote:I ja se slažem s Metildom.
Znas kako je lijepo van u mojoj sjenici okruzenoj malinama.. sjedim i telefoniram i jedem maline... mljac ..
_________________
On & On
mativka- Posts : 5957
2018-08-07
Re: Denkverbot
kic wrote:metilda wrote:kic wrote:mativka wrote:Sloboda govora i djelovanje nije isto.kic wrote:
https://www.katolik20.com/2020/06/15/batarelo-djeni-mac-u-korice/
Vrijeđati, istina, nije lijepo, ali zapravo šteti samo sirovini koja tako komunicira. Štoviše, bez slobode govora (pa i vrijeđanja), mogli smo ostati u zabludi da se radi o ozbiljnim opinion-makerima, a ne o intelektualcima kojima je vrhunac društvene kritike procesiju za križem opisati kao „nanašanje nekog kurca“.
Drag si mi, ali zapitaj se o svojim postupcima.
ali ovo je ipak virtualno djelovanje
uvreda ili prijetnja uživo nosi sa sobom blisku realizaciju, ovdje je ovo čisti zrak, zapis na ekranu, od kojeg ne osjećamo nikakav strah, možda odbojnost i gnušanje.. ali gdje je granica gnušanja onda? bolje je ne povlačit' onda puno ako nismo sigurno, a ja nisam.
ako je ovo samo virtualni prostor u kojemu nema realnih uvreda ili prijetnji onda treba u tome stavu biti dosljedan pa ne sankcionirati nikoga (ban za mortalku je onda bio besmislen) nit bit policajac na temama .. svi imamo svu slobodu i prava pisati svasta i svugdje i vrijedjati svacije pisanje i svakoga.. slazeš li se sa ovim? aben bi se svakako slozio..
osobna gnusanja ostavljamo po strani
nekad i hlađenja mora biti, više za dobro te osobe koja se zaletila..
a gnječ je stalno u galopu tako da :D
znaci da ipak postoji dvostruko mjerilo? gnjecu je dopusteno ono sto drugima nije jer je on eto konj u trajnom galopu.. ne slazem se sa ovim a ne slaze se ni sa tekovinom francuske revolucije o jednakosti ocu da svi budemo te plemenite zivotinje
Guest- Guest
Re: Denkverbot
mativka wrote:Volim masline. ..sir, pršut..metilda wrote:mativka wrote:I ja se slažem s Metildom.
Znas kako je lijepo van u mojoj sjenici okruzenoj malinama.. sjedim i telefoniram i jedem maline... mljac ..
bome je i to zgodno kad se skupimo svi uz sir i prsut pa zapjevamo
Guest- Guest
mativka- Posts : 5957
2018-08-07
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