Armenija vs Azerbejđan
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Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
Đango nije bio nigdje... služio je vojni rok 1992 u mostaru, od tamo je pobjego kad se osvajala vojarna, i nešto je mirnodopski kod kuće doslužio i uhvatio se faksa da ga ne bi zvali da ide u rat... ende po tom pitanju... stanojko je bio rezervista minobacačlija čini mi se...vuksadinare wrote:Jedna informacija...tko je bio u Mirkovcima '91?...stanojko ili đango
michaellcmacha- Posts : 21325
2015-08-08
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
to ti srbe zoveš da odu i da izbjegnu neki novi genocid...mentalitet wrote:kic wrote:
svijet bez USA policajca će biti tarapana žešća
To ja odavno tvrdim ..ali se njihova "briga" za svijet pretvorila u otvoreno donoshenje "demokracije" oruzjem shto je gore nego da i dalje brinu brigu o bilo kome.Zato ja navijam za Trampa jer ce povuci svu tu silu nazad kuci pa pustiti da se plemena kolju medju sobom a to je dobro jer ce se tako ljudski shljam istrijebiti i pochet ce se poshtivati one koji su jachi..kao recimo na Balkanu::))Mogu zamisliti shto ce biti kad se ameri povuku sa Kosova i iz BIH..Pichvajz kakvog svijet do tada nije vidio..zato savjetujem svim mladjima da bjeze iz tih vukojebina shto dalje od njih to bolje..Novi Zeland,Australija,USA ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrnWp5O0DEs
Hit the road Jack and don't you come back
No more, no more, no more, no more
Hit the road Jack and don't you come back
No more
What'd you say?
Hit the road Jack and don't you come back
No more, no more, no more, no more
Hit the road Jack and don't you come back
No more
Oh woman, oh woman, don't treat me so mean
You're the meanest old woman that I've ever have seen
I guess if you say so
I'll have to pack my things and go (that's right)
Hit the road Jack and don't you come back
No more, no more, no more, no more
Hit the road Jack and don't you come back
No more
What'd you say?
Hit the road Jack and don't you come back
No more, no more, no more, no more
Hit the road Jack and don't you come back
No more
Now baby, listen baby, don't you treat me this way
'Cause I'll be back on my feet some day
Don't care if you do, 'cause it's understood
You ain't got no money, you just ain't no good
Well, I guess if you say so
I'll have to pack my things and go (that's right)
Hit the road Jack and don't you come back
No more, no more, no more, no more
Hit the road Jack and don't you come back
No more
What'd you say?
Hit the road Jack and don't you come back
No more, no more, no more, no more
Hit the road Jack and don't you come back
No more
Well (don't you come back no more)
Uh, what you say? (don't you come back no more)
I didn't understand you (don't you come back no more)
You can't mean that (don't you come back no more)
Oh now baby please (don't you come back no more)
What you tryin' to do to me? (don't you come back no more)
Oh, don't treat me like that, baby (don't you come back no more)
michaellcmacha- Posts : 21325
2015-08-08
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
sultan je u nato-u jebiga
za sad niko ni da se trzne da ga izbaci
onda bi on malo prikocio sa sranjem
za sad niko ni da se trzne da ga izbaci
onda bi on malo prikocio sa sranjem
_________________
It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigotet adherents of the party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers-out of unortodoxy.
Orwell 1984
prckov- Posts : 34555
2014-04-19
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
Liberalni anti-Putin Ruski novinar Ilija Azar upravo je protjeran iz Karabahka i Armenija zbog izvještavanja sa terena...
https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2020/10/07/87416-voyna-u-yuzhnyh-vorot
The first half of Tuesday in Nagorno-Karabakh was unusually quiet: the shelling of Stepanakert temporarily stopped. Novaya Gazeta's correspondents reached Shoushi, where a few days ago they bombed a cultural center where, according to local residents, hundreds of military and police officers were stationed at the moment. Although the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic (NKR) claims that its military losses amount to 320 people, volunteers say that the losses are much higher, conscripts lack weapons and uniforms, and the situation at the front is deplorable.
https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2020/10/07/87416-voyna-u-yuzhnyh-vorot
The first half of Tuesday in Nagorno-Karabakh was unusually quiet: the shelling of Stepanakert temporarily stopped. Novaya Gazeta's correspondents reached Shoushi, where a few days ago they bombed a cultural center where, according to local residents, hundreds of military and police officers were stationed at the moment. Although the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic (NKR) claims that its military losses amount to 320 people, volunteers say that the losses are much higher, conscripts lack weapons and uniforms, and the situation at the front is deplorable.
Hektorović- Posts : 26373
2018-04-10
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
Russian Colonel Zhilin: “This is Erdogan’s war against Russia for the Caucasus”
October 8, 2020 at 12:01 am Guest Contributor Interviews 3
Following is an English translation of the October 1, 2020 on-camera remarks by Ret. Colonel Alexander Ivanovich Zhilin of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation provided to The Armenian Weekly.
Ret. Colonel Alexander Ivanovich Zhilin of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (Photo: YouTube/Yuri Kotenok)
The war has started. Azerbaijan attacked Armenia along the entire length of the Line of Contact. As always, it all happened quite unexpectedly for the two neighboring states [countries], but I think that our fabulous intelligence had information regarding the preparations for this war.
This war has been in preparation for a minimum of two years. Azerbaijan was being trained by Turkish as well as American specialists. I do not view these military actions as a battle for Karabakh (Artsakh). Karabakh is secondary in this case. This is Erdogan’s war against Russia for the Caucasus. This is Casus belli (an excuse for war), and the way we have been building our relations with Turkey will now cost us dearly. What do I mean? Look at the declarations of Turkey’s leader. They are harsh. They are precise. In fact Erdogan announced that Azerbaijan is a resource for achieving his certain objectives. The objectives are global.
I would like to say that no matter how much fun they make of Mr. Erdogan here, today he is one of the most effective politicians and leaders. He is cynical, he is shrewd, and he and his council are able to foresee situations. If we simply evaluate our relations with Turkey under Erdogan’s rule (I am saying this with a feeling of certain shame), he had us everywhere, wherever it was possible. We labored to build a nuclear plant, we laid pipelines, we opened our markets for him, and so on. Today, after the immense expenses for construction of those gas and oil pipelines, factually, the delivery [supply] has been stopped. We are suffering losses all around. Moreover, this war, which Azerbaijan instigated under Turkey’s pressure, is extraordinarily dangerous for the Russian Federation. We are a multinational state, and while everybody is analyzing whether Karabakh is occupied or unoccupied territory, the danger comes from the Turkish side. Hence Azerbaijan as an arena and a resource also becomes our strategic enemy. Let’s say this in all honesty: Azerbaijan is not a partner. We do not have any partners. We have either those who are consumerists or enemies. This is how the situation stands in the 21st century.
To say today that it is somehow possible to come to terms with Mr. Aliyev via some political consultations is a delirium [nonsense]. It is a delirium. One can come to terms only by taking a hard position. For example, we can say behind closed doors that for 72 hours we are closing all Azeri businesses throughout the Russian Federation, starting with markets to all those Food Cities, and so on and so forth. We can work things out with Kurds so that there will be shockwaves in Turkey. We also have other resources that we must implement in order to extinguish this [war]. The developing situation there is catastrophic for us. What do I mean? Both sides now feel extreme mutual hatred. That is obvious everywhere. If, say, in Armenia or in Azerbaijan the policy is to instill hatred toward the neighbor, then even in the Russian Federation the same kids from Azerbaijan permit themselves in my opinion to conduct flagrant actions. We all remember too well that the Food City complex refused to serve Armenians and almost threw Armenians out [of the stores]. You are in a third country, gentlemen! What are you permitting yourselves to do?
I am further extrapolating this situation. The pressure keeps increasing and increasing. Someone prognosticated a situation as follows. Some strange people with some kind of characteristic accent deliberately storm into a school. It is a provocation. It can be done by anybody— the CIA, by anyone. It can be done by guys [khloptsy] from Ukraine. So, God forbid, they start butchering children from Armenia, or children from Azerbaijan at school. Let’s say it’s been randomly established that there [at school] children from Armenian or Azeri Diaspora study.
What is Russia to do when the Caucasus rises, when Azerbaijani or Armenian Diaspora rises, and all that turns into a bloody mess? Do we have forces to stop all that later, when that process is in full force? What am I talking about? I am talking about that little war. If Erdogan succeeds in reaching certain objectives and if we (God forbid) treacherously betray Armenia, then our authority in Caucasus will become a total zilch [naught]. We will not be able to control the situation there. We will be obliged to… I don’t even know how to act. Because in this case it is about activation of dormant cells. All that exists and all that works against us. Therefore, when this war is discussed, we have to realize that in my view (and I can be wrong): first Ukraine, then Central Asia, then Eastern Europe, then Belarus, then frankly speaking, this little war. All those events are stemming from one united anti-Russian plan. That such a plan exists, I think, our intelligence reported to the political administration. One of the distinguishing marks is that we conducted the Kavkaz 2020 [Caucasus 2020 military exercises] with significantly (at the last moment significantly) increased potential.Those Kavkaz 2020 exercises were a form of warning: lads, don’t play with fire. They did not heed. Neither Erdogan nor anyone else heard [the warning]. [Voice of the interviewer: “Nor Aliyev. He never grasps warnings.”] Not at all. The consolidation there is on these levels: Washington, Ankara and Baku. A technological lineup on the road to organization of an interethnic nationalistic little war in Russia, a most fierce one from which practically there is no exit, to create within the Russian Federation an explosion which will simply tear apart our country.
Today we do not have such potential as to counterweight these processes. There is no ideology [or] image of the future. In this case, I think that the situation should be viewed as critical, and every sort of leverage ought to be used first and foremost against Turkey. Because – I underscore – because if over there the circumstances develop in favor of the plan which is being implemented, then we will not lose only Caucasus, but we might lose [our] country.
I would like to address our remarkable Kremlinites with a request. Please ask your advisors, your area specialists to compile a historical document on Russo-Turkish relations. How many times has Turkey been armed against Russia? Who told you gentlemen who sold S-400 to our unconciliatory foe Turkey that these missiles will not be used against our airplanes taking off from Gyumri? Who told you that? Has Erdogan fulfilled even one single promise given to Putin? Do we not see how Turkey attacks us in Syria? Do we not see that Turkey attacks us in Libya, attempting to throw away all our oil resources? Do we not see [Turkey’s] behavior in other areas? Please give me an example: who is as actively acting against Russia today as Turkey does? Even the USA is not acting as actively against us as Erdogan does. I want to say once again that Erdogan is a very strong politician, whoever might make fun of him. Thus far he has only victories. We have only bluff.
October 8, 2020 at 12:01 am Guest Contributor Interviews 3
Following is an English translation of the October 1, 2020 on-camera remarks by Ret. Colonel Alexander Ivanovich Zhilin of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation provided to The Armenian Weekly.
Ret. Colonel Alexander Ivanovich Zhilin of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (Photo: YouTube/Yuri Kotenok)
The war has started. Azerbaijan attacked Armenia along the entire length of the Line of Contact. As always, it all happened quite unexpectedly for the two neighboring states [countries], but I think that our fabulous intelligence had information regarding the preparations for this war.
This war has been in preparation for a minimum of two years. Azerbaijan was being trained by Turkish as well as American specialists. I do not view these military actions as a battle for Karabakh (Artsakh). Karabakh is secondary in this case. This is Erdogan’s war against Russia for the Caucasus. This is Casus belli (an excuse for war), and the way we have been building our relations with Turkey will now cost us dearly. What do I mean? Look at the declarations of Turkey’s leader. They are harsh. They are precise. In fact Erdogan announced that Azerbaijan is a resource for achieving his certain objectives. The objectives are global.
I would like to say that no matter how much fun they make of Mr. Erdogan here, today he is one of the most effective politicians and leaders. He is cynical, he is shrewd, and he and his council are able to foresee situations. If we simply evaluate our relations with Turkey under Erdogan’s rule (I am saying this with a feeling of certain shame), he had us everywhere, wherever it was possible. We labored to build a nuclear plant, we laid pipelines, we opened our markets for him, and so on. Today, after the immense expenses for construction of those gas and oil pipelines, factually, the delivery [supply] has been stopped. We are suffering losses all around. Moreover, this war, which Azerbaijan instigated under Turkey’s pressure, is extraordinarily dangerous for the Russian Federation. We are a multinational state, and while everybody is analyzing whether Karabakh is occupied or unoccupied territory, the danger comes from the Turkish side. Hence Azerbaijan as an arena and a resource also becomes our strategic enemy. Let’s say this in all honesty: Azerbaijan is not a partner. We do not have any partners. We have either those who are consumerists or enemies. This is how the situation stands in the 21st century.
To say today that it is somehow possible to come to terms with Mr. Aliyev via some political consultations is a delirium [nonsense]. It is a delirium. One can come to terms only by taking a hard position. For example, we can say behind closed doors that for 72 hours we are closing all Azeri businesses throughout the Russian Federation, starting with markets to all those Food Cities, and so on and so forth. We can work things out with Kurds so that there will be shockwaves in Turkey. We also have other resources that we must implement in order to extinguish this [war]. The developing situation there is catastrophic for us. What do I mean? Both sides now feel extreme mutual hatred. That is obvious everywhere. If, say, in Armenia or in Azerbaijan the policy is to instill hatred toward the neighbor, then even in the Russian Federation the same kids from Azerbaijan permit themselves in my opinion to conduct flagrant actions. We all remember too well that the Food City complex refused to serve Armenians and almost threw Armenians out [of the stores]. You are in a third country, gentlemen! What are you permitting yourselves to do?
I am further extrapolating this situation. The pressure keeps increasing and increasing. Someone prognosticated a situation as follows. Some strange people with some kind of characteristic accent deliberately storm into a school. It is a provocation. It can be done by anybody— the CIA, by anyone. It can be done by guys [khloptsy] from Ukraine. So, God forbid, they start butchering children from Armenia, or children from Azerbaijan at school. Let’s say it’s been randomly established that there [at school] children from Armenian or Azeri Diaspora study.
What is Russia to do when the Caucasus rises, when Azerbaijani or Armenian Diaspora rises, and all that turns into a bloody mess? Do we have forces to stop all that later, when that process is in full force? What am I talking about? I am talking about that little war. If Erdogan succeeds in reaching certain objectives and if we (God forbid) treacherously betray Armenia, then our authority in Caucasus will become a total zilch [naught]. We will not be able to control the situation there. We will be obliged to… I don’t even know how to act. Because in this case it is about activation of dormant cells. All that exists and all that works against us. Therefore, when this war is discussed, we have to realize that in my view (and I can be wrong): first Ukraine, then Central Asia, then Eastern Europe, then Belarus, then frankly speaking, this little war. All those events are stemming from one united anti-Russian plan. That such a plan exists, I think, our intelligence reported to the political administration. One of the distinguishing marks is that we conducted the Kavkaz 2020 [Caucasus 2020 military exercises] with significantly (at the last moment significantly) increased potential.Those Kavkaz 2020 exercises were a form of warning: lads, don’t play with fire. They did not heed. Neither Erdogan nor anyone else heard [the warning]. [Voice of the interviewer: “Nor Aliyev. He never grasps warnings.”] Not at all. The consolidation there is on these levels: Washington, Ankara and Baku. A technological lineup on the road to organization of an interethnic nationalistic little war in Russia, a most fierce one from which practically there is no exit, to create within the Russian Federation an explosion which will simply tear apart our country.
Today we do not have such potential as to counterweight these processes. There is no ideology [or] image of the future. In this case, I think that the situation should be viewed as critical, and every sort of leverage ought to be used first and foremost against Turkey. Because – I underscore – because if over there the circumstances develop in favor of the plan which is being implemented, then we will not lose only Caucasus, but we might lose [our] country.
I would like to address our remarkable Kremlinites with a request. Please ask your advisors, your area specialists to compile a historical document on Russo-Turkish relations. How many times has Turkey been armed against Russia? Who told you gentlemen who sold S-400 to our unconciliatory foe Turkey that these missiles will not be used against our airplanes taking off from Gyumri? Who told you that? Has Erdogan fulfilled even one single promise given to Putin? Do we not see how Turkey attacks us in Syria? Do we not see that Turkey attacks us in Libya, attempting to throw away all our oil resources? Do we not see [Turkey’s] behavior in other areas? Please give me an example: who is as actively acting against Russia today as Turkey does? Even the USA is not acting as actively against us as Erdogan does. I want to say once again that Erdogan is a very strong politician, whoever might make fun of him. Thus far he has only victories. We have only bluff.
Hektorović- Posts : 26373
2018-04-10
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
Sve je to gomila budalaština
Rusija je izgubila kontrolu nad tim područjem raspadom SSSR.
I gotova priča
Pratim ruske medije i izjave ruskih političara
U suštini ih boli kurac i za Armeniju i za Azerbejdžan i za Nagorni Karabah.
I neće Erdogan uradit ništa. DA bi se spojio sa Azerima mora okupirat samu Armaniju a to je već težak slučaj.
Rusi su posebno kivni na Armence
I imaju debelog razloga za to.
Putin je rekao lijepo da će Rusija svoje obaveze ispunjavat kad se tiče pomoći Armeniji ali NK ne ulazi u to.
I ja stvarno ne znam treba li to nekom na tabli crtat
Šta to neki očekuju, da Rusija bombardira BAku, da vojno okupira NK i da ga preda Armeniji na pladnju i da zarati sa Turskom
MA hajde bježi, gluposti
Ruusija u narednih 10 do 15 godina ima druge i žestoke prioritete i neće se upuštati u budalaste avanture bez potrebe ...
Erdogan ovo, Erdogan ono ... gluposti
Rusija je izgubila kontrolu nad tim područjem raspadom SSSR.
I gotova priča
Pratim ruske medije i izjave ruskih političara
U suštini ih boli kurac i za Armeniju i za Azerbejdžan i za Nagorni Karabah.
I neće Erdogan uradit ništa. DA bi se spojio sa Azerima mora okupirat samu Armaniju a to je već težak slučaj.
Rusi su posebno kivni na Armence
I imaju debelog razloga za to.
Putin je rekao lijepo da će Rusija svoje obaveze ispunjavat kad se tiče pomoći Armeniji ali NK ne ulazi u to.
I ja stvarno ne znam treba li to nekom na tabli crtat
Šta to neki očekuju, da Rusija bombardira BAku, da vojno okupira NK i da ga preda Armeniji na pladnju i da zarati sa Turskom
MA hajde bježi, gluposti
Ruusija u narednih 10 do 15 godina ima druge i žestoke prioritete i neće se upuštati u budalaste avanture bez potrebe ...
Erdogan ovo, Erdogan ono ... gluposti
Ringo10- Posts : 21667
2015-09-24
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
Ringo10 wrote:Sve je to gomila budalaština
Rusija je izgubila kontrolu nad tim područjem raspadom SSSR.
I gotova priča
Pratim ruske medije i izjave ruskih političara
U suštini ih boli kurac i za Armeniju i za Azerbejdžan i za Nagorni Karabah.
I neće Erdogan uradit ništa. DA bi se spojio sa Azerima mora okupirat samu Armaniju a to je već težak slučaj.
Rusi su posebno kivni na Armence
I imaju debelog razloga za to.
Putin je rekao lijepo da će Rusija svoje obaveze ispunjavat kad se tiče pomoći Armeniji ali NK ne ulazi u to.
I ja stvarno ne znam treba li to nekom na tabli crtat
Šta to neki očekuju, da Rusija bombardira BAku, da vojno okupira NK i da ga preda Armeniji na pladnju i da zarati sa Turskom
MA hajde bježi, gluposti
Ruusija u narednih 10 do 15 godina ima druge i žestoke prioritete i neće se upuštati u budalaste avanture bez potrebe ...
Erdogan ovo, Erdogan ono ... gluposti
sve to stoji..
ali onda ovi luđaci po Srbiji ali ima i ih kod nas i po zapadu, moraju skužiti da Putinova Pravoslavna Rusija, ipak nije Carska Rusija koja je ratovala za pravoslavlje i pan-slavenstvo(naravno i radi svojih interesa). Komunistička Rusija je ratovala za komunizam.
Putinova Rusija , iako se ekipa znala napaliti da su "pro-kršćanska da će zaštitit kršćanski svijet, intervenirati", izgleda da ih boli kurac , i gledaju striktno sebe - što mislim da je čak i ispravan potez za Rusiju . Baš me zanima da li će Srbi i dalje biti onako napaljeni , kada su mislili da će Rusija oslobađati Kosovu i širiti im granice ... kako da ne..
ALi sa druge strane Erdogan - ratuje za Islam i neo-Turcizam/otomanizam.. Širi se po Siriji, Libiji, prijeti Izraelu, forsira se kao vođa islama, intervenira po Bosni, evo bogami direktno uključen u rat u Nagorno K... direktno i nije niti tajna..
Zato gledam po komentarima recimo na Russia Today i po Bosanskim portalima, muslimani napaljeni na Erdogana.. sa druge strane Srbi sve više i više razočarani Putinom.. Mislim da se Putin tu ponaša ispravno , ali hrpa drugih će biti razočarana jer Putin nije Car Putin, nego Predsjednik/Premijer(koji već kurac :D ) koji gleda Bilancu više nego Angela Merkel
AssadNaPodmornici- Posts : 22267
2018-06-14
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
aaaa..pa jest..Turcadija pohodi vec nekoliko generacija Austriju i svabiju...a svabicama,tek propupalim,mladim,iskusnim,zrelim,a i starjim kokama su Turcadija prvi izbor..
Guest- Guest
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
AssadNaPodmornici wrote:Ringo10 wrote:Sve je to gomila budalaština
Rusija je izgubila kontrolu nad tim područjem raspadom SSSR.
I gotova priča
Pratim ruske medije i izjave ruskih političara
U suštini ih boli kurac i za Armeniju i za Azerbejdžan i za Nagorni Karabah.
I neće Erdogan uradit ništa. DA bi se spojio sa Azerima mora okupirat samu Armaniju a to je već težak slučaj.
Rusi su posebno kivni na Armence
I imaju debelog razloga za to.
Putin je rekao lijepo da će Rusija svoje obaveze ispunjavat kad se tiče pomoći Armeniji ali NK ne ulazi u to.
I ja stvarno ne znam treba li to nekom na tabli crtat
Šta to neki očekuju, da Rusija bombardira BAku, da vojno okupira NK i da ga preda Armeniji na pladnju i da zarati sa Turskom
MA hajde bježi, gluposti
Ruusija u narednih 10 do 15 godina ima druge i žestoke prioritete i neće se upuštati u budalaste avanture bez potrebe ...
Erdogan ovo, Erdogan ono ... gluposti
sve to stoji..
ali onda ovi luđaci po Srbiji ali ima i ih kod nas i po zapadu, moraju skužiti da Putinova Pravoslavna Rusija, ipak nije Carska Rusija koja je ratovala za pravoslavlje i pan-slavenstvo(naravno i radi svojih interesa). Komunistička Rusija je ratovala za komunizam.
Putinova Rusija , iako se ekipa znala napaliti da su "pro-kršćanska da će zaštitit kršćanski svijet, intervenirati", izgleda da ih boli kurac , i gledaju striktno sebe - što mislim da je čak i ispravan potez za Rusiju . Baš me zanima da li će Srbi i dalje biti onako napaljeni , kada su mislili da će Rusija oslobađati Kosovu i širiti im granice ... kako da ne..
ALi sa druge strane Erdogan - ratuje za Islam i neo-Turcizam/otomanizam.. Širi se po Siriji, Libiji, prijeti Izraelu, forsira se kao vođa islama, intervenira po Bosni, evo bogami direktno uključen u rat u Nagorno K... direktno i nije niti tajna..
Zato gledam po komentarima recimo na Russia Today i po Bosanskim portalima, muslimani napaljeni na Erdogana.. sa druge strane Srbi sve više i više razočarani Putinom.. Mislim da se Putin tu ponaša ispravno , ali hrpa drugih će biti razočarana jer Putin nije Car Putin, nego Predsjednik/Premijer(koji već kurac :D ) koji gleda Bilancu više nego Angela Merkel
E pa to...
Na koncu teritorija ima dovoljno
Hektorović- Posts : 26373
2018-04-10
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
Time For Russia and Other Great Powers to Move From Words to Actions to End Karabakh War
Russia should use its formidable leverage to bring Azerbaijani and Armenian diplomats to the negotiating table.
By Simon Saradzhyan
Updated: 3 hours ago
The ongoing violence between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Karabakh has already become the most serious escalation of fighting since the 1994 ceasefire. That freezing of hostilities came as a result of mediating efforts by multiple countries, but Russia played the lead role.
More than 16 years later Russia remains the only country capable of single-handedly compelling Armenia and Azerbaijan to end the conflict. Yet, while repeatedly issuing calls for a ceasefire in various unilateral and multilateral formats, Russia has been so far unwilling to back its calls with credible promises of deeds that Moscow would need to take to compel the sides to lay down arms, even if only temporarily.
I think it is time for Russia to use its formidable leverage to bring Azerbaijani and Armenian diplomats to the negotiating table, even if a ceasefire is the only deal they can now discuss as almost two weeks of fierce fighting have probably made a lasting peaceful resolution of the conflict over Karabakh unattainable in the near future.
The Kremlin should also use its resources to put pressure on Turkey, whose direct military support for Azerbaijan includes the deployment of pro-Turkish Syrian jihadists, is unprecedented for part of post-Soviet Eurasia, which Russia has declared to be a zone of its privileged interest. These actions will be in Russia’s national interests for three reasons, in my view.
Every additional day of fighting is fraught with escalation that could make the Kremlin’s current approach of being equidistant to Armenia and Azerbaijan untenable. If the fighting continues and escalates, making one side closer to prevailing over the other, Russia would have to choose from two unpalatable options: either side with Armenia and ‘lose’ Azerbaijan, or vice versa.
Moreover, if it chooses to side with Azerbaijan, Moscow would see its reputation as a reliable military ally, which it has burnished in Syria, seriously damaged. In fact, I wonder if that reputation is already being doubted by some of Russia’s allies in the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO).
After all, it can not have escaped their attention that even participating in all of the Russian-led integration projects in post-Soviet Eurasia, including CSTO, like Armenia does, does not prevent Moscow from being “equidistant” to you and your adversary. That’s still the case if the latter has initiated hostilities against you and, unlike you, is not Russia’s military ally.
Second, Turkey’s decision to get militarily involved in the conflict by sending its proxies to fight on Baku’s side, deploying F-16s to Ganja and providing material support for the Azerbaijani military represents the first time an external power has become militarily involved a conflict in parts of post-Soviet Eurasia.
If the Russian leaders do, indeed, see post-Soviet Caucasus as part of what they describe as a zone of privileged interest, then Turkey’s intrusion into it should be not just a matter of grave concern, but also a reason for Russia to act. (In fact, Karabakh has become a third region, where Turkish proxies are fighting against Russia’s allies, after Syria and Libya.)
Third, the participation of jihadists in hostilities on Russia’s borders should also be treated as a crossing of a Russian red line. And don’t take my word for it. An advisor to the Russian president’s Security Council has said so.
“If direct participation of the Turkish military or militants from Syria is proven, that will be a red line,” said Alexander Dynkin, president of Russia’s Institute of World Economy and International Relations and member of the scientific advisory board of the Security Council.
Dynkin’s “if” would appear redundant to anyone who has time to take a cursory look at recent reporting by such respected news organizations, as Reuters, the Guardian, and RFE/RL.
Сhief of Russia’s own foreign intelligence Sergei Naryshkin has even listed which jihadist groups have delegated their fighters to participate in combat on Baku’s side, saying that “we are speaking about hundreds or even thousands of radicals prepared to win earnings in the new Karabakh war.”
The presence of jihadists in a country that borders Russia’s North Caucasus should be of great concern to Russia. After all, one of the goals of Russia’s intervention in Syria was to prevent jihadists turning their gaze toward Russia upon ousting Assad and establishing a Caliphate there.
It follows then that the Kremlin should have even less tolerance for the same jihadists being across the border from its North Caucasus, which has accounted for more anti-state violence in post-Soviet Russia than any other region and been home to scores of al-Qaeda and Islamic State loyalists, some of whom even proclaimed the establishment of an ISIS vilayat there.
The Kremlin’s discontent with this development is borne out by multiple Russian official statements, including one from the Foreign Ministry that describes the presence of foreign rebels in Azerbaijan as “inadmissible.”
However, we have so far seen no actions from Russia to compel these jihadists to disengage and leave the South Caucasus. Russia should put meaningful pressure on Turkey so that it will at the very least withdraw these jihadists.
So far Turkey has shown no signs of being willing to do so, but perhaps it would change its mind if Russia signaled that it would be prepared to impose economic and other costs on Turkey if it doesn’t withdraw its proxies.
Turkey, which is already suffering from a weak economy, exports more than 4 billions dollars worth of produce and other goods to Russia annually, so it would probably pay attention if Russia acted like it did in 2015, curtailing imports from Turkey to punish Ankara for shooting down a Russian warplane, forcing Turkish President Recep Erdogan to apologize and seek to mend fences.
Yes, such sanctions could cost Russia, which exports billions of cubic meters of gas to and via Turkey. However, Kremlin’s interest in ending Turkey’s military involvement in what Russian leaders insist is a zone of their country’s privileged interests would trump the desire to avoid economic costs.
The need to defend Russia’s national interests should also trump whatever reluctance Putin may be feeling on a personal level to do something that would be interpreted as support for Nikol Pashinyan who has sought to place Putin’s friend and ex-president of Armenia Robert Kocharyan behind bars and keep him there in spite of signals from Putin not to do so.
Putin’s Russia is not the only country that should be not only concerned with the continuing fighting over Karabakh with the involvement of Turkish-sent jihadists, but also act on its concerns.
As news reports indicate, the United States has helped to train and equip some of them. We all remember what some of the rebels that U.S. helped to train and equip to fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan ended up doing in the 1990s-2000s. More importantly, it cannot be in U.S. interests to see jihadists, including past and present associates of Islamic State, al-Qaeda, and their affiliates, establish a presence in yet another country.
Yet, when it comes to mediating a ceasefire between Armenia and Azerbaijan, “Trump is nowhere to be seen,” as Washington Post columnist David Ignatius lamented back in September and again in October.
America’s small, but powerful ally Israel should also be concerned with Turkey’s behaviour and act on its concern. If Turkey is indeed a greater threat to Israel than Iran to per Yossi Cohen of Mossad’s view, then why arm Turkey’s closest ally whose gains vis-a-vis Armenia, if they become reality, would strengthen Turkey’s geopolitical clout?
If the U.S. and its allies were to throw their weight behind a meaningful Russian initiative to discontinue the Armenian-Azeria hostilities and make Turkey — a U.S. ally in NATO — withdraw its proxies and back that initiative with credible promises of economic sanctions and other punitive actions, then this war would be over soon.
Going forward, once the ceasefire is achieved, perhaps, it will be time for Russia to take time and rethink its current approaches to the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict. As one of Russia’s best foreign policy experts Fyodor Lukyanov has observed, Russia’s long-time approach towards maintaining status-quo over Karabakh by convincing both sides they cant prevail in war no longer works. “Hence, Russia needs to give it serious thought what is that it actually wants” vis-à-vis the two countries and the region as a whole, Lukyanov said. I cannot agree more.
Russia should use its formidable leverage to bring Azerbaijani and Armenian diplomats to the negotiating table.
By Simon Saradzhyan
Updated: 3 hours ago
The ongoing violence between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Karabakh has already become the most serious escalation of fighting since the 1994 ceasefire. That freezing of hostilities came as a result of mediating efforts by multiple countries, but Russia played the lead role.
More than 16 years later Russia remains the only country capable of single-handedly compelling Armenia and Azerbaijan to end the conflict. Yet, while repeatedly issuing calls for a ceasefire in various unilateral and multilateral formats, Russia has been so far unwilling to back its calls with credible promises of deeds that Moscow would need to take to compel the sides to lay down arms, even if only temporarily.
I think it is time for Russia to use its formidable leverage to bring Azerbaijani and Armenian diplomats to the negotiating table, even if a ceasefire is the only deal they can now discuss as almost two weeks of fierce fighting have probably made a lasting peaceful resolution of the conflict over Karabakh unattainable in the near future.
The Kremlin should also use its resources to put pressure on Turkey, whose direct military support for Azerbaijan includes the deployment of pro-Turkish Syrian jihadists, is unprecedented for part of post-Soviet Eurasia, which Russia has declared to be a zone of its privileged interest. These actions will be in Russia’s national interests for three reasons, in my view.
Every additional day of fighting is fraught with escalation that could make the Kremlin’s current approach of being equidistant to Armenia and Azerbaijan untenable. If the fighting continues and escalates, making one side closer to prevailing over the other, Russia would have to choose from two unpalatable options: either side with Armenia and ‘lose’ Azerbaijan, or vice versa.
Moreover, if it chooses to side with Azerbaijan, Moscow would see its reputation as a reliable military ally, which it has burnished in Syria, seriously damaged. In fact, I wonder if that reputation is already being doubted by some of Russia’s allies in the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO).
After all, it can not have escaped their attention that even participating in all of the Russian-led integration projects in post-Soviet Eurasia, including CSTO, like Armenia does, does not prevent Moscow from being “equidistant” to you and your adversary. That’s still the case if the latter has initiated hostilities against you and, unlike you, is not Russia’s military ally.
Second, Turkey’s decision to get militarily involved in the conflict by sending its proxies to fight on Baku’s side, deploying F-16s to Ganja and providing material support for the Azerbaijani military represents the first time an external power has become militarily involved a conflict in parts of post-Soviet Eurasia.
If the Russian leaders do, indeed, see post-Soviet Caucasus as part of what they describe as a zone of privileged interest, then Turkey’s intrusion into it should be not just a matter of grave concern, but also a reason for Russia to act. (In fact, Karabakh has become a third region, where Turkish proxies are fighting against Russia’s allies, after Syria and Libya.)
Third, the participation of jihadists in hostilities on Russia’s borders should also be treated as a crossing of a Russian red line. And don’t take my word for it. An advisor to the Russian president’s Security Council has said so.
“If direct participation of the Turkish military or militants from Syria is proven, that will be a red line,” said Alexander Dynkin, president of Russia’s Institute of World Economy and International Relations and member of the scientific advisory board of the Security Council.
Dynkin’s “if” would appear redundant to anyone who has time to take a cursory look at recent reporting by such respected news organizations, as Reuters, the Guardian, and RFE/RL.
Сhief of Russia’s own foreign intelligence Sergei Naryshkin has even listed which jihadist groups have delegated their fighters to participate in combat on Baku’s side, saying that “we are speaking about hundreds or even thousands of radicals prepared to win earnings in the new Karabakh war.”
The presence of jihadists in a country that borders Russia’s North Caucasus should be of great concern to Russia. After all, one of the goals of Russia’s intervention in Syria was to prevent jihadists turning their gaze toward Russia upon ousting Assad and establishing a Caliphate there.
It follows then that the Kremlin should have even less tolerance for the same jihadists being across the border from its North Caucasus, which has accounted for more anti-state violence in post-Soviet Russia than any other region and been home to scores of al-Qaeda and Islamic State loyalists, some of whom even proclaimed the establishment of an ISIS vilayat there.
The Kremlin’s discontent with this development is borne out by multiple Russian official statements, including one from the Foreign Ministry that describes the presence of foreign rebels in Azerbaijan as “inadmissible.”
However, we have so far seen no actions from Russia to compel these jihadists to disengage and leave the South Caucasus. Russia should put meaningful pressure on Turkey so that it will at the very least withdraw these jihadists.
So far Turkey has shown no signs of being willing to do so, but perhaps it would change its mind if Russia signaled that it would be prepared to impose economic and other costs on Turkey if it doesn’t withdraw its proxies.
Turkey, which is already suffering from a weak economy, exports more than 4 billions dollars worth of produce and other goods to Russia annually, so it would probably pay attention if Russia acted like it did in 2015, curtailing imports from Turkey to punish Ankara for shooting down a Russian warplane, forcing Turkish President Recep Erdogan to apologize and seek to mend fences.
Yes, such sanctions could cost Russia, which exports billions of cubic meters of gas to and via Turkey. However, Kremlin’s interest in ending Turkey’s military involvement in what Russian leaders insist is a zone of their country’s privileged interests would trump the desire to avoid economic costs.
The need to defend Russia’s national interests should also trump whatever reluctance Putin may be feeling on a personal level to do something that would be interpreted as support for Nikol Pashinyan who has sought to place Putin’s friend and ex-president of Armenia Robert Kocharyan behind bars and keep him there in spite of signals from Putin not to do so.
Putin’s Russia is not the only country that should be not only concerned with the continuing fighting over Karabakh with the involvement of Turkish-sent jihadists, but also act on its concerns.
As news reports indicate, the United States has helped to train and equip some of them. We all remember what some of the rebels that U.S. helped to train and equip to fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan ended up doing in the 1990s-2000s. More importantly, it cannot be in U.S. interests to see jihadists, including past and present associates of Islamic State, al-Qaeda, and their affiliates, establish a presence in yet another country.
Yet, when it comes to mediating a ceasefire between Armenia and Azerbaijan, “Trump is nowhere to be seen,” as Washington Post columnist David Ignatius lamented back in September and again in October.
America’s small, but powerful ally Israel should also be concerned with Turkey’s behaviour and act on its concern. If Turkey is indeed a greater threat to Israel than Iran to per Yossi Cohen of Mossad’s view, then why arm Turkey’s closest ally whose gains vis-a-vis Armenia, if they become reality, would strengthen Turkey’s geopolitical clout?
If the U.S. and its allies were to throw their weight behind a meaningful Russian initiative to discontinue the Armenian-Azeria hostilities and make Turkey — a U.S. ally in NATO — withdraw its proxies and back that initiative with credible promises of economic sanctions and other punitive actions, then this war would be over soon.
Going forward, once the ceasefire is achieved, perhaps, it will be time for Russia to take time and rethink its current approaches to the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict. As one of Russia’s best foreign policy experts Fyodor Lukyanov has observed, Russia’s long-time approach towards maintaining status-quo over Karabakh by convincing both sides they cant prevail in war no longer works. “Hence, Russia needs to give it serious thought what is that it actually wants” vis-à-vis the two countries and the region as a whole, Lukyanov said. I cannot agree more.
Hektorović- Posts : 26373
2018-04-10
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
Заявление Президента Российской Федерации
8 октября 2020 года23:30
Передаём текст заявления Президента Российской Федерации Владимира Путина:
«После серии телефонных переговоров с Президентом Азербайджанской Республики Ильхамом Алиевым и Премьер-министром Республики Армения Николом Пашиняном Президент России обращается с призывом прекратить боевые действия, ведущиеся в зоне нагорнокарабахского конфликта, по гуманитарным соображениям с целью обмена телами погибших и пленными.
Для проведения консультаций по этим вопросам при посредничестве Министра иностранных дел России в Москву 9 октября приглашаются министры иностранных дел Азербайджана и Армении».
8 октября 2020 года23:30
Передаём текст заявления Президента Российской Федерации Владимира Путина:
«После серии телефонных переговоров с Президентом Азербайджанской Республики Ильхамом Алиевым и Премьер-министром Республики Армения Николом Пашиняном Президент России обращается с призывом прекратить боевые действия, ведущиеся в зоне нагорнокарабахского конфликта, по гуманитарным соображениям с целью обмена телами погибших и пленными.
Для проведения консультаций по этим вопросам при посредничестве Министра иностранных дел России в Москву 9 октября приглашаются министры иностранных дел Азербайджана и Армении».
Hektorović- Posts : 26373
2018-04-10
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
A Rusi moraju biti zainteresirani htjeli ne htjeli...a najradije bi i jedne i druge zatjerali u pizdu materinu
Inace nisam znao da su bombu u moskovskom metrou 1977me godine postavili armenski teroristi
Inace nisam znao da su bombu u moskovskom metrou 1977me godine postavili armenski teroristi
Ringo10- Posts : 21667
2015-09-24
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
Nadoda bi i Poljake... onda idu balkanci, nebitnim redosljedom, a zatim Hutui, Tutsi i ostali...
darth_vader-
Posts : 19761
2014-04-17
Age : 46
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
Ringo10 wrote:A Rusi moraju biti zainteresirani htjeli ne htjeli...a najradije bi i jedne i druge zatjerali u pizdu materinu
Inace nisam znao da su bombu u moskovskom metrou 1977me godine postavili armenski teroristi
Guest- Guest
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
vidim svaki dan azeri izbace nove video uratke gdje armence dronovima pretvaraju u čevape i uništavaju im hrpu tehnike.. armenci sa druge strane sve manje i manje uspjeha imaju...
ne znam kako se armenci misle obraniti.. moraju azerima nanjeti par većih gubitaka da bi se "rekuperali".. dronovima nesmeta noć, dan, teren.. eventualno im smeta kao magla koliko sam skužio.. doslovno sam gledao dronovima nvode one izraelske rakete na armence, samim dronovima uništavaju sve..
ne znam gdje je Armenski PZO kišobran
ne znam kako se armenci misle obraniti.. moraju azerima nanjeti par većih gubitaka da bi se "rekuperali".. dronovima nesmeta noć, dan, teren.. eventualno im smeta kao magla koliko sam skužio.. doslovno sam gledao dronovima nvode one izraelske rakete na armence, samim dronovima uništavaju sve..
ne znam gdje je Armenski PZO kišobran
_________________
May Allah destroy Australia
AssadNaPodmornici- Posts : 22267
2018-06-14
Re: Armenija vs Azerbejđan
Azerbajdžanci potvrdili
https://www.novosti.rs/planeta/svet/924551/stigla-zvanicna-potvrda-turski-16-azerbejdzanu-predsednik-alijev-otkrio-sta-glavni-zadatak
https://www.novosti.rs/planeta/svet/924551/stigla-zvanicna-potvrda-turski-16-azerbejdzanu-predsednik-alijev-otkrio-sta-glavni-zadatak
RayMabus- Posts : 184105
2014-04-11
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