105. GODINA NASILNE ŠUTNJE: Ako Turska jest u stanju zaustaviti svijet u globalnoj osudi Genocida nad Armencima što je tek u stanju nametnuti BIH kulturi sjećanja?

dzmrdz wrote:

Ringo10 wrote:

dzmrdz wrote:E bas jucer sam citao o tom slucaju genocuda nad Armenima u sklopu jednog predavanja o Otomanskoj Imperiji.

Između ostalog, izgleda da nije bilo državne namere da se Armeni pobiju, pobijeni su od strane uglavnom kurdskih jedinica i to najverovatnije radi toga sto su imali pretenzije prema zemljistu i posedima Armena u Maloj Aziji.

Sto je najbitnije, Armeni su upravo od Otomana dobili autokefalnost njihove crkve koju im bizantski vladari nisu dozvoljavali . Bili su povlastena grupa radi svojih sposobnosti kao prevodioci, trgovci, lekari itd.

Uglavnom, mnogo kompleksniji dogadjaj nego sto sam mislio...

Genocid su inicirali Turci a Kurde su izmanipulirali svakakvim obecanjima koja su kasnije dakako, pogazili

TAko su se rijesili armenskog faktora i njihovog separatizma

Ako ti se da procitati ovaj summary, ima 7-8 stranica ali brzo se cita...

https://ufile.io/dqisdcn0

U vezi genocida nad armenima i kako je doslo do toga, meni se cini ipak malo prihvatljivija verzija od one koju sam do sada znao di je ono dosli Turci i pobili ove iz cista mira..

Eroo wrote: 
Iliti, Dražen Erdemović je bio Hrvat, ali Hrvati nisu muslimane tamanili u Srebrenici.

jastreb wrote:

Eroo wrote: 
Iliti, Dražen Erdemović je bio Hrvat, ali Hrvati nisu muslimane tamanili u Srebrenici.

Ni u Ahmićima.

Eroo wrote:

jastreb wrote:

Eroo wrote: 
Iliti, Dražen Erdemović je bio Hrvat, ali Hrvati nisu muslimane tamanili u Srebrenici.

Ni u Ahmićima.

Vidim da si dobro informiran. Znaš li tko je one gadosti radio u Grabovici, Trusini, Križančevu selu itd?

Eroo wrote:

jastreb wrote:

Eroo wrote: 
Iliti, Dražen Erdemović je bio Hrvat, ali Hrvati nisu muslimane tamanili u Srebrenici.

Ni u Ahmićima.

Vidim da si dobro informiran. Znaš li tko je one gadosti radio u Grabovici, Trusini, Križančevu selu itd?

Eroo wrote:

jastreb wrote:

Eroo wrote: 
Iliti, Dražen Erdemović je bio Hrvat, ali Hrvati nisu muslimane tamanili u Srebrenici.

Ni u Ahmićima.

Vidim da si dobro informiran. Znaš li tko je one gadosti radio u Grabovici, Trusini, Križančevu selu itd?

dzango wrote:

Eroo wrote:

jastreb wrote:

Eroo wrote: 
Iliti, Dražen Erdemović je bio Hrvat, ali Hrvati nisu muslimane tamanili u Srebrenici.

Ni u Ahmićima.

Vidim da si dobro informiran. Znaš li tko je one gadosti radio u Grabovici, Trusini, Križančevu selu itd?

A zašto onda pominješ Srebrenicu?

Eroo wrote:  
Sjetio sam se da su vaši elitičari uvijek Erdemoviću spominjali nacionalnost u kontekstu Srebrenice.  

Eroo wrote:

dzmrdz wrote:

Ringo10 wrote:

dzmrdz wrote:E bas jucer sam citao o tom slucaju genocuda nad Armenima u sklopu jednog predavanja o Otomanskoj Imperiji.

Između ostalog, izgleda da nije bilo državne namere da se Armeni pobiju, pobijeni su od strane uglavnom kurdskih jedinica i to najverovatnije radi toga sto su imali pretenzije prema zemljistu i posedima Armena u Maloj Aziji.

Sto je najbitnije, Armeni su upravo od Otomana dobili autokefalnost njihove crkve koju im bizantski vladari nisu dozvoljavali . Bili su povlastena grupa radi svojih sposobnosti kao prevodioci, trgovci, lekari itd.

Uglavnom, mnogo kompleksniji dogadjaj nego sto sam mislio...

Genocid su inicirali Turci a Kurde su izmanipulirali svakakvim obecanjima koja su kasnije dakako, pogazili

TAko su se rijesili armenskog faktora i njihovog separatizma

Ako ti se da procitati ovaj summary, ima 7-8 stranica ali brzo se cita...

https://ufile.io/dqisdcn0

U vezi genocida nad armenima i kako je doslo do toga, meni se cini ipak malo prihvatljivija verzija od one koju sam do sada znao di je ono dosli Turci i pobili ove iz cista mira..

Armenci znaju tko ih je tamanio, najbolje da njih pitaš. Ne spominju Kurde u tom kontekstu.
Iliti, Dražen Erdemović je bio Hrvat, ali Hrvati nisu muslimane tamanili u Srebrenici.

dzmrdz wrote:

Eroo wrote:

dzmrdz wrote:

Ringo10 wrote:

dzmrdz wrote:E bas jucer sam citao o tom slucaju genocuda nad Armenima u sklopu jednog predavanja o Otomanskoj Imperiji.

Između ostalog, izgleda da nije bilo državne namere da se Armeni pobiju, pobijeni su od strane uglavnom kurdskih jedinica i to najverovatnije radi toga sto su imali pretenzije prema zemljistu i posedima Armena u Maloj Aziji.

Sto je najbitnije, Armeni su upravo od Otomana dobili autokefalnost njihove crkve koju im bizantski vladari nisu dozvoljavali . Bili su povlastena grupa radi svojih sposobnosti kao prevodioci, trgovci, lekari itd.

Uglavnom, mnogo kompleksniji dogadjaj nego sto sam mislio...

Genocid su inicirali Turci a Kurde su izmanipulirali svakakvim obecanjima koja su kasnije dakako, pogazili

TAko su se rijesili armenskog faktora i njihovog separatizma

Ako ti se da procitati ovaj summary, ima 7-8 stranica ali brzo se cita...

https://ufile.io/dqisdcn0

U vezi genocida nad armenima i kako je doslo do toga, meni se cini ipak malo prihvatljivija verzija od one koju sam do sada znao di je ono dosli Turci i pobili ove iz cista mira..

Armenci znaju tko ih je tamanio, najbolje da njih pitaš. Ne spominju Kurde u tom kontekstu.
Iliti, Dražen Erdemović je bio Hrvat, ali Hrvati nisu muslimane tamanili u Srebrenici.

Analogy ti je donekle upotrebljiva, u Armeniji nije bio jedan Kurd nego vecina, naravno odluke su inicirane od strane CUP.

p.s.

Da li treba pitati Srbe ko ih je ubijao u Jasenovcu, ili to neki drugi znaju bolje?

dzmrdz wrote: 

Da li treba pitati Srbe ko ih je ubijao u Jasenovcu, ili to neki drugi znaju bolje?

Eroo wrote:

dzmrdz wrote:

Eroo wrote:

dzmrdz wrote:

Ringo10 wrote:
Genocid su inicirali Turci a Kurde su izmanipulirali svakakvim obecanjima koja su kasnije dakako, pogazili

TAko su se rijesili armenskog faktora i njihovog separatizma

Ako ti se da procitati ovaj summary, ima 7-8 stranica ali brzo se cita...

https://ufile.io/dqisdcn0

U vezi genocida nad armenima i kako je doslo do toga, meni se cini ipak malo prihvatljivija verzija od one koju sam do sada znao di je ono dosli Turci i pobili ove iz cista mira..

Armenci znaju tko ih je tamanio, najbolje da njih pitaš. Ne spominju Kurde u tom kontekstu.
Iliti, Dražen Erdemović je bio Hrvat, ali Hrvati nisu muslimane tamanili u Srebrenici.

Analogy ti je donekle upotrebljiva, u Armeniji nije bio jedan Kurd nego vecina, naravno odluke su inicirane od strane CUP.

p.s.

Da li treba pitati Srbe ko ih je ubijao u Jasenovcu, ili to neki drugi znaju bolje?

Ako bi se poslužili srpske analogije s Erdemovićem onda bih rekao Židovi i Bošnjaci....
Pročitaj Dnevnik Diane Budisavljević, imaš ga na netu. Toplo preporučam.

jastreb wrote:

Eroo wrote:  
Sjetio sam se da su vaši elitičari uvijek Erdemoviću spominjali nacionalnost u kontekstu Srebrenice.  

Nje Erdemović tu bio jedini. U Bijeljini su komplet Hrvati(nema ih ondje puno) za vrijeme rata bili u vojsci RS. Bio je ondje i neki Koprivčanec,Robert mislim. Taj je bio u Škorpionima.  I on je bio prisutan tamo sa Bocom i Perom Petraševićem.

Bosanski Hrvati i bosanski Srbi više nemaju volje ratovati jedni protiv drugih. Očekuje se samo da vi dolje nešto ne zaribate.

jastreb wrote:

dzmrdz wrote: 

Da li treba pitati Srbe ko ih je ubijao u Jasenovcu, ili to neki drugi znaju bolje?

Ratko Dmitrović,Milomir Marić i Vojko kažu da su ih ubijali Srbi.

Eroo wrote:

jastreb wrote:

Eroo wrote:  
Sjetio sam se da su vaši elitičari uvijek Erdemoviću spominjali nacionalnost u kontekstu Srebrenice.  

Nje Erdemović tu bio jedini. U Bijeljini su komplet Hrvati(nema ih ondje puno) za vrijeme rata bili u vojsci RS. Bio je ondje i neki Koprivčanec,Robert mislim. Taj je bio u Škorpionima.  I on je bio prisutan tamo sa Bocom i Perom Petraševićem.

Bosanski Hrvati i bosanski Srbi više nemaju volje ratovati jedni protiv drugih. Očekuje se samo da vi dolje nešto ne zaribate.

Ne brinite vi u ZG puno o tome. Dolje je , što se toga tiče, sve u najboljem redu.

dzmrdz wrote:

Gnječ wrote:

dzmrdz wrote:

Ringo10 wrote:

dzmrdz wrote:E bas jucer sam citao o tom slucaju genocuda nad Armenima u sklopu jednog predavanja o Otomanskoj Imperiji.

Između ostalog, izgleda da nije bilo državne namere da se Armeni pobiju, pobijeni su od strane uglavnom kurdskih jedinica i to najverovatnije radi toga sto su imali pretenzije prema zemljistu i posedima Armena u Maloj Aziji.

Sto je najbitnije, Armeni su upravo od Otomana dobili autokefalnost njihove crkve koju im bizantski vladari nisu dozvoljavali . Bili su povlastena grupa radi svojih sposobnosti kao prevodioci, trgovci, lekari itd.

Uglavnom, mnogo kompleksniji dogadjaj nego sto sam mislio...

Genocid su inicirali Turci a Kurde su izmanipulirali svakakvim obecanjima koja su kasnije dakako, pogazili

TAko su se rijesili armenskog faktora i njihovog separatizma

Ako ti se da procitati ovaj summary, ima 7-8 stranica ali brzo se cita...

https://ufile.io/dqisdcn0

U vezi genocida nad armenima i kako je doslo do toga, meni se cini ipak malo prihvatljivija verzija od one koju sam do sada znao di je ono dosli Turci i pobili ove iz cista mira..

ne razumijem tebe i ringa zašto se malo bolje ne informirate barem je to u današnje doba prilično lako.

tako su se riješili armenskog faktora i separatizma kaže drug ringo a on očito nezna da je kraljevina Armenija bila na području male azije gdje je danas Turska. Turci su osvojili i razjebali kraljevinu Armeniju i na njenom se teritoriju naselili. dakle ako itko ima prirodno pravo psihopatsko sadističku turčadiju poslat u tri pičke materine to su upravo armenci jer su turci uljezi na armenskom teritoriju.

dalje, pogroma i genocida od strane turčadije nad armencima  je bilo i prije ovog genocida.

da ostavim malo teksta:



The Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia, 1198–1375

During the 1230s, the Mongol Empire conquered Zakarid Armenia and then the remainder of Armenia. The Mongolian invasions were soon followed by those of other Central Asian tribes, such as the Kara Koyunlu, Timurid dynasty and Ağ Qoyunlu, which continued from the 13th century until the 15th century. After incessant invasions, each bringing destruction to the country, with time Armenia became weakened.

In the 16th century, the Ottoman Empire and the Safavid dynasty of Iran divided Armenia. From the early 16th century, both Western Armenia and Eastern Armenia fell to the Safavid Empire.

While Western Armenia still remained under Ottoman rule, the Armenians were granted considerable autonomy within their own enclaves and lived in relative harmony with other groups in the empire (including the ruling Turks). However, as Christians under a strict Muslim social structure, Armenians faced pervasive discrimination. When they began pushing for more rights within the Ottoman Empire, Sultan Abdul Hamid II, in response, organised state-sponsored massacres against the Armenians between 1894 and 1896, resulting in an estimated death toll of 80,000 to 300,000 people. The Hamidian massacres, as they came to be known, gave Hamid international infamy as the "Red Sultan" or "Bloody Sultan"

---

During the 1890s, the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, commonly known as Dashnaktsutyun, became active within the Ottoman Empire with the aim of unifying the various small groups in the empire that were advocating for reform and defending Armenian villages from massacres that were widespread in some of the Armenian-populated areas of the empire. Dashnaktsutyun members also formed Armenian fedayi groups that defended Armenian civilians through armed resistance. The Dashnaks also worked for the wider goal of creating a "free, independent and unified" Armenia, although they sometimes set aside this goal in favour of a more realistic approach, such as advocating autonomy.

The Ottoman Empire began to collapse, and in 1908, the Young Turk Revolution overthrew the government of Sultan Hamid. In April 1909, the Adana massacre occurred in the Adana Vilayet of the Ottoman Empire resulting in the deaths of as many as 20,000–30,000 Armenians. The Armenians living in the empire hoped that the Committee of Union and Progress would change their second-class status. The Armenian reform package (1914) was presented as a solution by appointing an inspector general over Armenian issues.

----

The Tehcir Law (from tehcir, a word of Arabic origin in Ottoman Turkish and meaning "deportation" or "forced displacement" as defined by the Turkish Language Institute), or, officially by the Republic of Turkey, the "Sevk ve İskân Kanunu" (Relocation and Resettlement Law)[1] was a law passed by the Ottoman Council of Ministers on May 27, 1915 authorizing the deportation of the Ottoman Empire's Armenian population. The resettlement campaign resulted in the deaths of anywhere between 800,000 and over 1,800,000 civilians in what is commonly referred to as the Armenian Genocide. The bill was officially enacted on June 1, 1915 and expired on February 8, 1916.



pročitajte si ovdje

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehcir_Law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia#Middle_Ages

ima i ova verzija ista je samo više detalja:

The Roots of Genocide: The Ottoman Empire
The Armenian people have made their home in the Caucasus region of Eurasia for some 3,000 years. For some of that time, the kingdom of Armenia was an independent entity: At the beginning of the 4th century A.D., for instance, it became the first nation in the world to make Christianity its official religion.

But for the most part, control of the region shifted from one empire to another. During the 15th century, Armenia was absorbed into the mighty Ottoman Empire.

The Ottoman rulers, like most of their subjects, were Muslim. They permitted religious minorities like the Armenians to maintain some autonomy, but they also subjected Armenians, who they viewed as “infidels,” to unequal and unjust treatment.

Christians had to pay higher taxes than Muslims, for example, and they had very few political and legal rights.

In spite of these obstacles, the Armenian community thrived under Ottoman rule. They tended to be better educated and wealthier than their Turkish neighbors, who in turn grew to resent their success.

This resentment was compounded by suspicions that the Christian Armenians would be more loyal to Christian governments (that of the Russians, for example, who shared an unstable border with Turkey) than they were to the Ottoman caliphate.

These suspicions grew more acute as the Ottoman Empire crumbled. At the end of the 19th century, the despotic Turkish Sultan Abdul Hamid II – obsessed with loyalty above all, and infuriated by the nascent Armenian campaign to win basic civil rights – declared that he would solve the “Armenian question” once and for all.

“I will soon settle those Armenians,” he told a reporter in 1890. “I will give them a box on the ear which will make them…relinquish their revolutionary ambitions.”


The First Armenian Massacre

Between 1894 and 1896, this “box on the ear” took the form of a state-sanctioned pogrom.

In response to large scale protests by Armenians, Turkish military officials, soldiers and ordinary men sacked Armenian villages and cities and massacred their citizens. Hundreds of thousands of Armenians were murdered.

Young Turks

In 1908, a new government came to power in Turkey. A group of reformers who called themselves the “Young Turks” overthrew Sultan Abdul Hamid and established a more modern constitutional government.

At first, the Armenians were hopeful that they would have an equal place in this new state, but they soon learned that what the nationalistic Young Turks wanted most of all was to “Turkify” the empire. According to this way of thinking, non-Turks – and especially Christian non-Turks – were a grave threat to the new state.


https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/armenian-genocide

Jesi ti procitao ono sto sam ja postavio uopste, taj link?

Bunis se da niko ne cita tvoje plahte i linkove a ti ocigledno nisi prprocitao materijal koji sam ja prosledio u linku.

Sto vise, postavio sam samo summary predavanja koje imam u Audible formatu i koje je mnogo detaljnije ali ocigledno ne mozemo svako svacijoj temi posvetiti 5h slusanja ...

U principu, sve tu kaze od povlastenog statusa Armena u Carstvu, njihovom separatizmu podstaknutom iz Rusije, gubitku poverenja izmedju Otomanske vlasti i njih do naredbe o relokaciji, zloupotrebi iste od strane kurdskih jedinica i naravno uloge Committee of Union and 
Progress (CUP). 

Plus, isto tako objasnjava doprinos samoj atmosferi u Carstvu prilivom stotine hiljada muslimanskih izbeglica sa Balkana koji radikaliziraju atmosferu i do juce multiversko i multietnicko Carstvo konacno uoblicavaju na gotovo iskljucivo islamskim i anadolskim nasledjima, sto se i danas smatraju fundamenti turske Republike.



Naravno da svaki izvor nesto ima sto drugi nema ali najbitnije je tu. 

Nesto o autoru predavanja:

Kenneth W. Harl is Professor of Classical and Byzantine History at 
Tulane University, where he has taught since 1978. He earned his 
B.A. from Trinity College and his M.A. and Ph.D. from Yale University

Gnječ wrote:

dzmrdz wrote:

Gnječ wrote:

dzmrdz wrote:

Ringo10 wrote:
Genocid su inicirali Turci a Kurde su izmanipulirali svakakvim obecanjima koja su kasnije dakako, pogazili

TAko su se rijesili armenskog faktora i njihovog separatizma

Ako ti se da procitati ovaj summary, ima 7-8 stranica ali brzo se cita...

https://ufile.io/dqisdcn0

U vezi genocida nad armenima i kako je doslo do toga, meni se cini ipak malo prihvatljivija verzija od one koju sam do sada znao di je ono dosli Turci i pobili ove iz cista mira..

ne razumijem tebe i ringa zašto se malo bolje ne informirate barem je to u današnje doba prilično lako.

tako su se riješili armenskog faktora i separatizma kaže drug ringo a on očito nezna da je kraljevina Armenija bila na području male azije gdje je danas Turska. Turci su osvojili i razjebali kraljevinu Armeniju i na njenom se teritoriju naselili. dakle ako itko ima prirodno pravo psihopatsko sadističku turčadiju poslat u tri pičke materine to su upravo armenci jer su turci uljezi na armenskom teritoriju.

dalje, pogroma i genocida od strane turčadije nad armencima  je bilo i prije ovog genocida.

da ostavim malo teksta:



The Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia, 1198–1375

During the 1230s, the Mongol Empire conquered Zakarid Armenia and then the remainder of Armenia. The Mongolian invasions were soon followed by those of other Central Asian tribes, such as the Kara Koyunlu, Timurid dynasty and Ağ Qoyunlu, which continued from the 13th century until the 15th century. After incessant invasions, each bringing destruction to the country, with time Armenia became weakened.

In the 16th century, the Ottoman Empire and the Safavid dynasty of Iran divided Armenia. From the early 16th century, both Western Armenia and Eastern Armenia fell to the Safavid Empire.

While Western Armenia still remained under Ottoman rule, the Armenians were granted considerable autonomy within their own enclaves and lived in relative harmony with other groups in the empire (including the ruling Turks). However, as Christians under a strict Muslim social structure, Armenians faced pervasive discrimination. When they began pushing for more rights within the Ottoman Empire, Sultan Abdul Hamid II, in response, organised state-sponsored massacres against the Armenians between 1894 and 1896, resulting in an estimated death toll of 80,000 to 300,000 people. The Hamidian massacres, as they came to be known, gave Hamid international infamy as the "Red Sultan" or "Bloody Sultan"

---

During the 1890s, the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, commonly known as Dashnaktsutyun, became active within the Ottoman Empire with the aim of unifying the various small groups in the empire that were advocating for reform and defending Armenian villages from massacres that were widespread in some of the Armenian-populated areas of the empire. Dashnaktsutyun members also formed Armenian fedayi groups that defended Armenian civilians through armed resistance. The Dashnaks also worked for the wider goal of creating a "free, independent and unified" Armenia, although they sometimes set aside this goal in favour of a more realistic approach, such as advocating autonomy.

The Ottoman Empire began to collapse, and in 1908, the Young Turk Revolution overthrew the government of Sultan Hamid. In April 1909, the Adana massacre occurred in the Adana Vilayet of the Ottoman Empire resulting in the deaths of as many as 20,000–30,000 Armenians. The Armenians living in the empire hoped that the Committee of Union and Progress would change their second-class status. The Armenian reform package (1914) was presented as a solution by appointing an inspector general over Armenian issues.

----

The Tehcir Law (from tehcir, a word of Arabic origin in Ottoman Turkish and meaning "deportation" or "forced displacement" as defined by the Turkish Language Institute), or, officially by the Republic of Turkey, the "Sevk ve İskân Kanunu" (Relocation and Resettlement Law)[1] was a law passed by the Ottoman Council of Ministers on May 27, 1915 authorizing the deportation of the Ottoman Empire's Armenian population. The resettlement campaign resulted in the deaths of anywhere between 800,000 and over 1,800,000 civilians in what is commonly referred to as the Armenian Genocide. The bill was officially enacted on June 1, 1915 and expired on February 8, 1916.



pročitajte si ovdje

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehcir_Law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia#Middle_Ages

ima i ova verzija ista je samo više detalja:

The Roots of Genocide: The Ottoman Empire
The Armenian people have made their home in the Caucasus region of Eurasia for some 3,000 years. For some of that time, the kingdom of Armenia was an independent entity: At the beginning of the 4th century A.D., for instance, it became the first nation in the world to make Christianity its official religion.

But for the most part, control of the region shifted from one empire to another. During the 15th century, Armenia was absorbed into the mighty Ottoman Empire.

The Ottoman rulers, like most of their subjects, were Muslim. They permitted religious minorities like the Armenians to maintain some autonomy, but they also subjected Armenians, who they viewed as “infidels,” to unequal and unjust treatment.

Christians had to pay higher taxes than Muslims, for example, and they had very few political and legal rights.

In spite of these obstacles, the Armenian community thrived under Ottoman rule. They tended to be better educated and wealthier than their Turkish neighbors, who in turn grew to resent their success.

This resentment was compounded by suspicions that the Christian Armenians would be more loyal to Christian governments (that of the Russians, for example, who shared an unstable border with Turkey) than they were to the Ottoman caliphate.

These suspicions grew more acute as the Ottoman Empire crumbled. At the end of the 19th century, the despotic Turkish Sultan Abdul Hamid II – obsessed with loyalty above all, and infuriated by the nascent Armenian campaign to win basic civil rights – declared that he would solve the “Armenian question” once and for all.

“I will soon settle those Armenians,” he told a reporter in 1890. “I will give them a box on the ear which will make them…relinquish their revolutionary ambitions.”


The First Armenian Massacre

Between 1894 and 1896, this “box on the ear” took the form of a state-sanctioned pogrom.

In response to large scale protests by Armenians, Turkish military officials, soldiers and ordinary men sacked Armenian villages and cities and massacred their citizens. Hundreds of thousands of Armenians were murdered.

Young Turks

In 1908, a new government came to power in Turkey. A group of reformers who called themselves the “Young Turks” overthrew Sultan Abdul Hamid and established a more modern constitutional government.

At first, the Armenians were hopeful that they would have an equal place in this new state, but they soon learned that what the nationalistic Young Turks wanted most of all was to “Turkify” the empire. According to this way of thinking, non-Turks – and especially Christian non-Turks – were a grave threat to the new state.


https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/armenian-genocide

Jesi ti procitao ono sto sam ja postavio uopste, taj link?

Bunis se da niko ne cita tvoje plahte i linkove a ti ocigledno nisi prprocitao materijal koji sam ja prosledio u linku.

Sto vise, postavio sam samo summary predavanja koje imam u Audible formatu i koje je mnogo detaljnije ali ocigledno ne mozemo svako svacijoj temi posvetiti 5h slusanja ...

U principu, sve tu kaze od povlastenog statusa Armena u Carstvu, njihovom separatizmu podstaknutom iz Rusije, gubitku poverenja izmedju Otomanske vlasti i njih do naredbe o relokaciji, zloupotrebi iste od strane kurdskih jedinica i naravno uloge Committee of Union and 
Progress (CUP). 

Plus, isto tako objasnjava doprinos samoj atmosferi u Carstvu prilivom stotine hiljada muslimanskih izbeglica sa Balkana koji radikaliziraju atmosferu i do juce multiversko i multietnicko Carstvo konacno uoblicavaju na gotovo iskljucivo islamskim i anadolskim nasledjima, sto se i danas smatraju fundamenti turske Republike.



Naravno da svaki izvor nesto ima sto drugi nema ali najbitnije je tu. 

Nesto o autoru predavanja:

Kenneth W. Harl is Professor of Classical and Byzantine History at 
Tulane University, where he has taught since 1978. He earned his 
B.A. from Trinity College and his M.A. and Ph.D. from Yale University

pa naravno da sam pročitao sve od početka do kraja neš ti problema 5 minuta čitanja.

po onome što autor teksta piše ispada da su genocid nad armencima izvršili bosanci i ostala balkanska raja što i je točno vjerojatno. no autor zanemaruje namjerno sva događanja koja su bitna za shvatiti ispravno cijelu situaciju a zato sam ti pejstao sve ovo iznad.

dzmrdz wrote:

MisMislim da je vise citava zemlja radikalizovana dolaskom izbegizbeglica nego sto su te izbeglice ucestvoučestvovali u masakru...
Ne zznam sta zanemaruje?

Ja imam citavo predavanje, ovde nije sve...

Gnječ wrote:

dzmrdz wrote:

MisMislim da je vise citava zemlja radikalizovana dolaskom izbegizbeglica nego sto su te izbeglice ucestvoučestvovali u masakru...
Ne zznam sta zanemaruje?

Ja imam citavo predavanje, ovde nije sve...

zanemaruje bitne događaje recimo kraljevinu Armeniju, prvi genocid nad armencima je prešutio nije uopće spomenuo, nije spomenuo ni onaj tuski zakon kojeg sam iznad stavio, prešutio je mnogo toga jako bitnoga a dao je neku idealiziranu sliku turčadije. sliku koja je u sukobu sa zdravim razumom što ga po mom sudu odmah klasificira u quackery. jebote kao da mu je predsjednik turske naručio da napiše tu knjigu.

evo imam i ja čitavo predavanje - knjigu

tko želi neka čita pa neka sudi:

https://elkitab.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/by-Kenneth-W.-Harl-The-Ottoman-Empire-3409929-z-lib.org_.pdf