Denkverbot

Rabarbara wrote:

kic wrote:
i ja se presvukoh..

words, words, words..  you may as well listen to the birds!

Kako si bio napadnut zbog robice mislila sam da ćeš se obući u neke ratne krpice, dostojne prosječnog mačo tipa. Dobro je, ne daš se zbuniti. 

ostao sam stalozen i povukao se u lijepi njemacki film prije ww2 B-)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora%27s_Box_(1929_film)

kic wrote:

Rabarbara wrote:

kic wrote:
i ja se presvukoh..

words, words, words..  you may as well listen to the birds!

Kako si bio napadnut zbog robice mislila sam da ćeš se obući u neke ratne krpice, dostojne prosječnog mačo tipa. Dobro je, ne daš se zbuniti. 

ostao sam stalozen i povukao se u lijepi njemacki film prije ww2 B-)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora%27s_Box_(1929_film)

Pametno. ;)

Ne bi bilo loše da se i ja povučem u svoju kuhinju i konačno napravim rižot s lignjama, koje su još jučer očišćene i čekaju, čekaju... :)

Uživaj.

Rabarbara wrote:

mativka wrote:

aben wrote:

mativka wrote:

aben wrote:
dakle, nemoš takov citat?

Nemam komunistički za kojeg si me optužio..no to ne znači da se ne trebaš sramiti i tražiti izlike o svom neznanju ;)

Nemoš jer te nis optuži:)


Kakovo sa ne znonje, ča nis zno?

Napisao si mi, nakon što sam napisala citat koji me se dojmio da je to komunistički citat...

No, došli smo do saznanja da je to bio citat Ayn Rand, osoba klasičnog libertarijanizma..kojeg uz put ti propagiraš...no, iskreno, ne djeluješ mi tako :)

:)

Boci sun h- bomb jer mativki ne djelujen ko libertarijanac?

Kakove to uopće veze imo?
Jo bocin h bumbu svaki put kad neko izrekne neistinu i unda se pokušo izvući, namesto da samo reče da je pogriši.

Inače, ayn rand, po mativki klasična libertarijunka, said;

What do you think of the libertarian movement?


AR:
All kinds of people today call themselves “libertarians,” especially something calling itself the New Right, which consists of hippies who are anarchists instead of leftist collectivists; but anarchists are collectivists. Capitalism is the one system that requires absolute objective law, yet libertarians combine capitalism and anarchism. That’s worse than anything the New Left has proposed. It’s a mockery of philosophy and ideology

kic wrote:
i ja se presvukoh..

words, words, words..  you may as well listen to the birds!

Ma joooj : ))))

Pa volim Evuuu. Izrugivala sam se Mativkinim pitanjima ('zasto si izabrao taj av ako se smatras intelektualcem i hetero?', nesto te je u tom stilu upitala.. Mogao si joj jednostavno napisati - zato jer mi je napeta.. ).

zasto jednostavno kad moze komplicirano.

Rabarbara wrote:

violator wrote:

kic wrote:
ligaya, am on it

https://youtu.be/_DDheZMTvQo

Kako dobroo! Dugo je nisam cula! :)


Bok, Barbie!


Idem si malo porazgovarati sa stablima... Sve se rascvjetalo, ali mirisi bugenvilije dominiraju..

Dobro jutro Li.

Ajme, bugenvilija  je već procvjetala?  Zavidim ti. :)

Tu su tek trešnje u cvatu, a i one ne mirišu jer kiši iz dana u dan. Kad prestane padati više ni cvijeta neće biti. 
Ali zato se radujem božurima.  

Bozuri. Prekrasno cvijece. :)


U obliznjem kvartu, dominiraju stabla s tamnorozim cvjeticima natisnutima jedno pored drugog. I to su citave grane gusto isprepletene njima. Ne prepoznajem bas o kojem je drvecu rijec...

kic wrote:
zasto jednostavno kad moze komplicirano.

Ma. :D

kic wrote:
zasto jednostavno kad moze komplicirano.

ako želiš jednostavno, unda moroš ko grci

aben wrote:

kic wrote:
zasto jednostavno kad moze komplicirano.

ako želiš jednostavno, unda moroš  ko grci

iz it the gayz?

kic wrote:

aben wrote:

kic wrote:
zasto jednostavno kad moze komplicirano.

ako želiš jednostavno, unda moroš  ko grci

iz it the gayz?

e a da imo ča drugo, reko bi ti..

mativka wrote:

Gnječ wrote:
evo registrirah se opet jer zagađujete internet sjebavate gravitacijsko polje i shodno tome da kažem onako po istrijanski vas dva ste munjeni ludi lunatiki nenormalne beštije. uz to ste još i hrvati a ti još i slavonka a to je još jedan ogromni minus.

Dobrodošao nazad!

hvala na dobrodošlici ali šta je tu smiješnoga da mi je znati? jes ti normalna? ovo je bogu za plakati opet sam upao u crnu rupu. ovaj je forum crna rupa ako astronomi žele znati što ima u crnoj rupi trebaju se samo registrirat na ovaj forum. ali ja sam dokazao da je moguće izaći iz crne rupe doduše smori me ta gravitacijsko temporalno prostorna anomalija pa ne odem dalje od kako bi rekli rvat'ne događajnog obzora jebote događajni obzor šta ne zvuči ljepše event horizont ili da rečemo po našu event horizont bi bio štekat. ako se previše nagneš priko štekata....buć! upadneš u crnu rupu. hahah...jebenti crne rupe.

aben wrote:

kic wrote:

aben wrote:

kic wrote:
zasto jednostavno kad moze komplicirano.

ako želiš jednostavno, unda moroš  ko grci

iz it the gayz?

e a da imo ča drugo, reko bi ti..

iz all dat iz

znaci Grci nemaju nis drugo za dati? a ono da moras pojam razumjeti, i tek onda je moguca linija izmedju misli i djela tj harmonija zivljenja, to nista :^^

kic wrote:

aben wrote:

kic wrote:

aben wrote:

kic wrote:
zasto jednostavno kad moze komplicirano.

ako želiš jednostavno, unda moroš  ko grci

iz it the gayz?

e a da imo ča drugo, reko bi ti..

iz all dat iz

znaci Grci nemaju nis drugo za dati? a ono da moras pojam razumjeti, i tek onda je moguca linija izmedju misli i djela tj harmonija zivljenja, to nista :^^

ne, ne, nemo drugoga nočina za keep it simple,
jednostavno moroš izbjegavati žinske ko grci

Why Libertarianism Can Never Work

The libertarian idea of society is unworkable for the simple reason that it reflects neither realistic human behavior nor hyper rational human behavior.

We can explain why with a thought experiment. Imagine a world where everybody is a clone of each other. Everybody is equally talented, educated and wealthy. These people all live in an ideal libertarian state, meaning there is a minimum of government interference in their lives. No wealth redistribution systems. Government is primarily concerned with protecting property rights and national defense.

How would such a society develop over time?

Many wrongly assume that if everybody work equally hard and are equally talented, then they would be equally well off. However in reality that would not be the case. There is always an element of luck. One can argue about the magnitude of its importance but there is no denying that it exists.

Every day is a dice roll, which may bring you a good business deal, car crash or a lucky harvest. This size, shape and type of dice will be determined by your DNA, parents, environment etc. But in our thought experiment everybody has an identical dice. The chance of rolling a particular number is equal for everybody, but still random.

In experiments like this, the distribution of outcomes will have a bell curve shape (normal distribution), meaning the majority will get the average value of the dice, while two tiny minorities will get either very bad or very good outcomes.

How Inequality is Amplified Over Time

When we combine the normal distribution of luck with the economy of scale, we get a significant long term problem. A large factory or farm produce more value per dollar invested than a smaller one. Hence lager fortunes on average give a higher return than smaller ones.
This will cause small initial differences to amplify over time. Those who become wealthy can use their wealth to give better education and opportunities to their offspring which means they will get ahead of their peers ,even if everybody in genetic terms are clones.

One must assume a libertarian society, will not have inheritance taxes. This means accumulated wealth can be keep growing over generations further cementing the position of the elite.

How Wealth Concentration Distorts Politics

But it gets worse, and this is where I think the core problem with libertarianism or small government ideology lies. In a system with a minimum of checks and balances, beyond enforcing property rights, there is nothing to prevent the wealthy from utilizing their power for political gains.
If people operate as rational individuals seeking optimal outcomes for themselves, then their natural inclinations would be to buy politicians through any legal means necessary to push policies benefiting them.

This is something I suspect libertarians never take serious. While they are all too ready to view the economy as something dynamic and always changing, they seem to think think politics is static. Even if a libertarian society is achieved initially, one must consider its long term stability. What direction will natural political forces drive it towards?

Why the Rich Will Not Champion a Truly Free Market

The rich and powerful will change the whole system to benefit them. You always get more profits from monopoly than in a free market. It is hence in the interest of the rich to limit and subvert the free market. Thus a truly free market system cannot survive in a thoroughly unequal society. Rather we end up with crony capitalism. How does this work in practice? We can see this in various forms in almost any capitalist country today. Among western democracies it is perhaps even more pronounced in the US.

Towards a Society of Privilege for the Rich

Copyright, trademark and patent laws get expanded ever more, so that the established players can gain de-facto monopoly powers. We see this play out in the pharmaceutical industry, telecoms and utilities. E.g. in Florida utilities managed to get politicians to push through laws which made it illegal to get power exclusively from roof top solar cells. Various states have banned the sale of Tesla automobiles, at the behest of established auto-dealers.

This is not very different from how the wealthy in medieval societies maintained their wealth. They had exclusive monopolies to trade with certain goods. Only certain people were allowed to operate a mill, which everybody had to use etc. These were privileges the rich and wealthy had. They lobbied the king to get these. Today the rich lobby politicians for privileges in the form of stricter patents, trademarks and copyrights.  
There are of course lots of other ways of creating a barrier for others to enter a market. One can insist on particular licenses to operate a certain type of business. By making this license onerous and complicated you keep out the small fish.

The Long Term Instability of Libertarian Society

A libertarian society, can not hinder such developments, because there are no mechanisms to balance wealth. Wealth means power, which means invariably that libertarianism has no mechanism for balancing power.

This is why we see no libertarian governments in reality. These societies are not stable. If anything close to them every appears they will either turn into crony capitalism or spark a socialist revolution. The reason being that there is no mechanism in libertarianism to hinder concentration on wealth.

Concentration of wealth will either cause the wealthy to rewrite the laws and change the system to crony capitalism or cause so much resentment among the lower classes than they revolt, either by violent means or by voting into office some sort of left wing extremist.
The closest thing ever to a libertarian economy was probably Hong Kong under British rule. However that was only possible because there was no democracy.

What a Stable Society Looks like?

Crony capitalism is naturally stable because those with wealth also have the power. It means both political power, media and markets. That means the elite in a crony capitalist society can easily manipulate the masses to maintain their system and hold onto power.

State capitalist systems such as found in the former East Block and the Soviet Union are not stable either, as we saw at the fall of the Berlin Wall. When skilled workers cannot start their own companies and get adequate compensations for their skills, they will invariably leave, leading to brain drain. To counter such effects one ends up with suppression and tyranny.

This leaves us with with democracy with a mixed economy as the only sensible choice. These are stable because political and economic power is not completely out of sync. There is some form of wealth redistribution which means the majority will not have a financial incentive to outright reject the system in the polls. Redistribution also means less power is concentrated with the elite which means an all out manipulation of the political system by the elite to benefit themselves will be more difficult.

Hence my claim will be that it is easier to maintain a free market when there is wealth redistribution, because consumers which represent those who truly benefit from free market competition will have the political power to maintain this system. They will have this power because redistribution mechanism will make sure they don’t lose so much income and wealth as to also loose political influence.

Ideally a stable society needs to offer a mechanism for different interest groups in a society to fight for influence and balance each other out.

Gnječ wrote:Why Libertarianism Can Never Work

The libertarian idea of society is unworkable for the simple reason that it reflects neither realistic human behavior nor hyper rational human behavior.

prilično unknowledgeable post,
un ki ti je ovo napiso je izgljedo potpuno nesvjesan o libertarijunskoj literaturi u kojoj su takova pitanja (i njihova rješenja) normalna.

This is something I suspect libertarians never take serious.

he suspects
:)

un basically govori da libertarijansko društvo ne more funkcijonirati jer će ga bogati dokinuti. je se složeš da se sve ovo ča je napiso svodi na to?

aben wrote:

Gnječ wrote:Why Libertarianism Can Never Work

The libertarian idea of society is unworkable for the simple reason that it reflects neither realistic human behavior nor hyper rational human behavior.

prilično unknowledgeable post,
un ki ti je ovo napiso je izgljedo potpuno nesvjesan o libertarijunskoj literaturi u kojoj su takova pitanja (i njihova rješenja) normalna.

This is something I suspect libertarians never take serious.

he suspects
:)

un basically govori da libertarijansko društvo ne more funkcijonirati jer će ga bogati dokinuti. je se složeš da se sve ovo ča je napiso svodi na to?

narkojunac imaš pun internet dokaza protiv a jako malo za ako ih uopće ima. imaš Google pa traži ali ti to ne ćeš napraviti jer znaš da te čeka ogromno razočaranje. a ti i dalje pili svoj cok. cok na cok.

uz to što si naučno dokazani sociopata narkojunac još si i licemjer jer nas ubjeđuješ da je socijalizam zlo a ti od socijalizma živiš dobivaš plaću. to je kao da mi liječnik ubjeđuje da je duhan zlo a on fuma ka fabrika cimenta španjulet jen za drugin.

Gnječ wrote:

aben wrote:

Gnječ wrote:Why Libertarianism Can Never Work

The libertarian idea of society is unworkable for the simple reason that it reflects neither realistic human behavior nor hyper rational human behavior.

prilično unknowledgeable post,
un ki ti je ovo napiso je izgljedo potpuno nesvjesan o libertarijunskoj literaturi u kojoj su takova pitanja (i njihova rješenja) normalna.

This is something I suspect libertarians never take serious.

he suspects
:)

un basically govori da libertarijansko društvo ne more funkcijonirati jer će ga bogati dokinuti. je se složeš da se sve ovo ča je napiso svodi na to?

narkojunac imaš pun internet dokaza protiv a jako malo za ako ih uopće ima. imaš Google pa traži ali ti to ne ćeš napraviti jer znaš da te čeka ogromno razočaranje.  a ti i dalje pili svoj cok. cok na cok.

dokaza:)

Gnječ wrote:uz to što si naučno dokazani sociopata narkojunac još si i licemjer jer nas ubjeđuješ da je socijalizam zlo a ti od socijalizma živiš dobivaš plaću. to je kao da mi liječnik ubjeđuje da je duhan zlo a on fuma ka fabrika cimenta španjulet jen za drugin.

to je totalno nezrelo i zapravo logički neispravno;
činjenica da likor puši nišće ne govori o istinitosti ili neistinosti izjave da je duhan zlo.

you should know better.

aben wrote:

Gnječ wrote:uz to što si naučno dokazani sociopata narkojunac još si i licemjer jer nas ubjeđuješ da je socijalizam zlo a ti od socijalizma živiš dobivaš plaću. to je kao da mi liječnik ubjeđuje da je duhan zlo a on fuma ka fabrika cimenta španjulet jen za drugin.

to je totalno nezrelo i zapravo logički neispravno;
činjenica da likor puši nišće ne govori o istinitosti ili neistinosti izjave da je duhan zlo.

you should know better.

ma nemoj?! dokaži! ja ću ti sad dat dva zaušnjaka da će ti u lubanji zvonit ka na crikvi zvono. liječnik je netko tko ima dužnost da živi po načelima koje propovijeda mora biti pošten vjerodostojan trustworthy mora biti primjer drugima. isto kao ča prokleti popi cigansko psihopatska krama sa psihopatom ustašom Bozanićem na vrhu propovjedaju siromaštvo, bogobojaznost, moral, čednost a oni su totalno suprotno od toga totalno su nemoralni, brutalno bogati, ne boje se boga koga zastupaju tu na zemlji, čedni su u pizdu njihove smrdljive hrvatske matere totalna seksuanla perverzija prostitucija pedofilija i još pun kurac toga a djecu indoktrinijaju da je grijeh drkat kurac ili masturbirat a jebanje je grijeh prije stupanja u brak. jebote hrvatski prokleti bog da ti jeba sve ča imaš pička ti materina drkadžijo sociopatska narkojunca da ti jebem.