Denkverbot

kic wrote:
ima i u vicevima istine, nekad..

The difference between a libertarian wedding and a libertarian funeral?

One less opinion.

Gnječ wrote:

violator wrote:

Gnječ wrote:ruski vic iz doba monarhije:

A man was reported to have said: "Nikolay is a moron!" and was arrested by a policeman. "No, sir, I meant not our respected Emperor, but another Nikolay!" - "Don't try to trick me: if you say "moron", you are obviously referring to our tsar!"


rano doba komunističke revolucije

Midnight Petrograd... A Red Guards night watch spots a shadow trying to sneak by. "Stop! Who goes there? Documents!" The frightened person chaotically rummages through his pockets and drops a paper. The Guards chief picks it up and reads slowly, with difficulty: "U.ri.ne A.na.ly.sis"... "Hmm... a foreigner, sounds like ..." "A spy, looks like.... Let's shoot him on the spot!" Then he reads further: "'Proteins: none, Sugars: none, Fats: none...' You are free to go, proletarian comrade! Long live the World revolution!"

ruski vicevi u doba Staljina:

Yogurts: none.

biti željan industrijskog jogurta a imati u štali 22 krave koje jedva čekaju da ih se pomuze i napravi jogurt. od svake krave drukčiji jogurt znači 22 vrste jogurta. na Grobniku po livadi i u šumi bobičastog voća divlje jagode, borovnica itd. a Kolinda nema jogurta pa ni onog voćnog.

Jogurtlinda.

hahahah...zapališ kubanski torpedo usred ovalnog ureda u Bijeloj kući i boli te kurac za Nixona šta on ne puši.

violator wrote:

Gnječ wrote:

violator wrote:

Gnječ wrote:ruski vic iz doba monarhije:

A man was reported to have said: "Nikolay is a moron!" and was arrested by a policeman. "No, sir, I meant not our respected Emperor, but another Nikolay!" - "Don't try to trick me: if you say "moron", you are obviously referring to our tsar!"


rano doba komunističke revolucije

Midnight Petrograd... A Red Guards night watch spots a shadow trying to sneak by. "Stop! Who goes there? Documents!" The frightened person chaotically rummages through his pockets and drops a paper. The Guards chief picks it up and reads slowly, with difficulty: "U.ri.ne A.na.ly.sis"... "Hmm... a foreigner, sounds like ..." "A spy, looks like.... Let's shoot him on the spot!" Then he reads further: "'Proteins: none, Sugars: none, Fats: none...' You are free to go, proletarian comrade! Long live the World revolution!"

ruski vicevi u doba Staljina:

Yogurts: none.

biti željan industrijskog jogurta a imati u štali 22 krave koje jedva čekaju da ih se pomuze i napravi jogurt. od svake krave drukčiji jogurt znači 22 vrste jogurta. na Grobniku po livadi i u šumi bobičastog voća divlje jagode, borovnica itd. a Kolinda nema jogurta pa ni onog voćnog.

Jogurtlinda.

novo na tržištu!

Jogolinda, jogurt koji je falio.

violator wrote:

kic wrote:
ima i u vicevima istine, nekad..

The difference between a libertarian wedding and a libertarian funeral?

One less opinion.

u oba slučaja

Gnječ wrote:hahahah...zapališ kubanski torpedo usred ovalnog ureda u Bijeloj kući i boli te kurac za Nixona šta on ne puši.

pa ono, zgodna anegdota ali nitko od tog nije ništ imao-

Mannerheim je to Hitleru u po rata napravio eh-

: )))

kic wrote:

Gnječ wrote:hahahah...zapališ kubanski torpedo usred ovalnog ureda u Bijeloj kući i boli te kurac za Nixona šta on ne puši.

pa ono, zgodna anegdota ali nitko od tog nije ništ imao-

Mannerheim je to Hitleru u po rata napravio eh-

eh- nikako Tita probavit jel?

And after saying goodbye to Mr. Tito and his wife, Jovanka, after the state dinner the other night, Mr. Nixon burst into uncharacteristically lavish praise: “He has strong views but he is able to talk to anyone in the world. He is a leader who has color, humor and a marvelous memory. He is an excellent judge of people. We hit it off so well. And he doesn't fear us.”

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ma super, uživaj u kultu ličnosti, mene to ne grije :D

kic wrote:

jo ne zun za niti jednu socijalističku tezu koja more izdržati njanci kritiku ni od učeničkog referata. 

to je nevjerojatno. pozicioniranje protiv socijalizma je ko krasti lizalicu od diteta

aben wrote:In the 1980s, Nancy Reagan placed ashtrays at the White House dinner table as a courtesy to invited guests who might want to take a post-meal puff. But by 1993, Hillary Clinton was exercising a strict no-smoking policy in residential areas of the property. Her husband, a cigar aficionado, was reported to have gnawed on unlit cigars instead. (By 1997, he had signed an executive order banning smoking in all Federal buildings outside of specially designated rooms.)

Nancy je bila zakon.

kic wrote:
ma super, uživaj u kultu ličnosti, mene to ne grije :D

ma kakav kult ličnosti jebote? pa vi tom čovjeku trebate biti vječno zahvalni jer vas je spasio od biološkog istrebljenja panju glupi. da nije bilo njega nakon 2.svj. rata bi vašu NDH raskomadali danas bi ti verovatno pričao srpski i pisao ćirilicom ili bi možda pričao mađarskim jezikom, ruskim ovisi gdje su tvoji bili.

ipak malo respekta prema čovjeku koji vam je omogućio da danas imate svoju državu.

aben wrote:
jo ne zun za niti jednu socijalističku tezu koja more izdržati njanci kritiku ni od učeničkog referata. 

to je nevjerojatno. pozicioniranje protiv socijalizma je ko krasti lizalicu od diteta

There Are No Successful Libertarian States But Honduras Is A Place

My family and I traveled last month to a Honduras city known for its libertarian ideals. Here’s what happened next

ast month, I spent my final vacation night in Honduras in San Pedro Sula, considered the most dangerous city outside of the war-torn Middle East. I would not have been scared, except that I traveled with my wife and our four children, aged 5, 7, 14 and 18. On our last taxi ride, we could not find a van to fit us all, so we rode in two taxis. Mine carried me and my two daughters, aged 5 and 14, while the driver blasted Willie Nelson singing "City of New Orleans" (a city that is also considered very dangerous).

It was a surreal moment, traveling in one of the most dangerous cities in the world with my babies in tow. I gave a nod to the radio. “Willie,” I said, and he gave me a grin and vigorous “sí.” There’s a lot of American cowboy culture in Honduras, but along with silly hats, Honduras has also taken one of our other worst ideas—libertarian politics. By the time I’d made it to San Pedro Sula, I’d seen much of the countryside and culture. It’s a wonderful place, filled with music, great coffee, fabulous cigars and generous people, but it’s also a libertarian experiment coming apart.

People better than I have analyzed the specific political moves that have created this modern day libertarian dystopia. Mike LaSusa recently wrote a detailed analysis of such, laying out how the bad ideas of libertarian politics have been pursued as government policy.

In America, libertarian ideas are attractive to mostly young, white men with high ideals and no life experience that live off of the previous generation’s investments and sacrifice. I know this because as a young, white idiot, I subscribed to this system of discredited ideas: Selfishness is good, government is bad. Take what you want, when you want and however you can. Poor people deserve what they get, and the smartest, hardworking people always win. So get yours before someone else does. I read the books by Charles Murray and have an autographed copy of Ron Paul’s "The Revolution." The thread that links all the disparate books and ideas is that they fail in practice. Eliminate all taxes, privatize everything, load a country up with guns and oppose all public expenditures, you end up with Honduras.

In Honduras, the police ride around in pickup trucks with machine guns, but they aren’t there to protect most people. They are scary to locals and travelers alike. For individual protection there’s an army of private, armed security guards who are found in front of not only banks, but also restaurants, ATM machines, grocery stores and at any building that holds anything of value whatsoever. Some guards have uniforms and long guns but just as many are dressed in street clothes with cheap pistols thrust into waistbands. The country has a handful of really rich people, a small group of middle-class, some security guards who seem to be getting by and a massive group of people who are starving to death and living in slums. You can see the evidence of previous decades of infrastructure investment in roads and bridges, but it’s all in slow-motion decay.

I took a van trip across the country, starting in Copan (where there are must-see Mayan ruins), across to the Caribbean Sea to a ferry that took my family to Roatan Island. The trip from Copan to the coast took a full six hours, and we had two flat tires. The word "treacherous" is inadequate—a better description is "post-apocalyptic." We did not see one speed limit sign in hundreds of kilometers. Not one. People drive around each other on the right and left and in every manner possible. The road was clogged with horses, scooters and bicycles. People traveled in every conceivable manner along the crumbling arterial. Few cars have license plates, and one taxi driver told me that the private company responsible for making them went bankrupt. Instead of traffic stops, there are military check points every so often. The roads seemed more dangerous to me than the gang violence.

The greatest examples of libertarianism in action are the hundreds of men, women and children standing alongside the roads all over Honduras. The government won’t fix the roads, so these desperate entrepreneurs fill in potholes with shovels of dirt or debris. They then stand next to the filled-in pothole soliciting tips from grateful motorists. That is the wet dream of libertarian private sector innovation.

On the mainland there are two kinds of neighborhoods, slums that seem to go on forever and middle-class neighborhoods where every house is its own citadel. In San Pedro Sula, most houses are surrounded by high stone walls topped with either concertina wire or electric fence at the top. As I strolled past these castle-like fortifications, all I could think about was how great this city would be during a zombie apocalypse.

On a previous vacation abroad, I’d met a resident of San Pedro Sula by the name of Alberto. Through Facebook, we connected up to have drinks and share a short tour of his home city. A member of the small, dwindling middle class, Alberto objects to his city being labeled the most dangerous in the Western Hemisphere. He showed me a few places in the city that could have been almost anywhere, a hipster bar, a great seafood place (all guarded by armed men, of course). Alberto took me on a small hike to a spot overlooking the city and pointed out new construction and nice buildings. There are new buildings and construction but it is funded exclusively by private industry. He pointed out a place for a new airport that could be the biggest in Central America, he said, if only it could get built, but there is no private sector upside. Alberto made me see the potential, the hope and even the hidden beauty of the place.

For our last meal in San Pedro Sula, my family walked a couple blocks from our fortress-like bed and breakfast to a pizza restaurant. It was the middle of the day and we were the only customers. We walked through the gated walls and past a man in casual slacks with a pistol belt slung haphazardly around his waist. Welcome to an Ayn Rand’s libertarian paradise, where your extra-large pepperoni pizza must also have an armed guard.

Part of the reason this discredited, libertarian bullshit still carries any weight for Americans is because so few of us travel. Only 30 percent of Americans have passports, and if Americans do go places, it’s not often to Honduras. On the mainland of Honduras, we saw no more than a handful of Americans. I did see many more on the tourist-centric island of Roatan, but of course this slice of beach paradise is not at all representative of the larger country or its problems. It has nonstop flights from the U.S. directly to the island so you can skip all the needless reality.

One can dismiss the core of near-sociopathic libertarian ideas with one simple question: What kind of society maximizes freedom while providing the best outcomes for the greatest number of human beings? You cannot start with the assumption that a Russian novel writer from the '50s is a genius, so therefore all ideas about government and society must fit between the pages of "Atlas Shrugged." That concept is stupid, and sends you on the opposite course of “good outcomes for human beings.” The closer you get to totally untamed, uncontrolled privatization, the nearer you approach "Lord of the Flies."

These questions about how best to provide a good society are not being asked in Honduras, but they are also ignored in the United States as a matter of routine. We have growing income inequality and government is being ever more controlled by a few extremely wealthy political donors. Our own infrastructure is far from admired worldwide, and the trend doesn’t look good from where I’m sitting. We have yet to stop our own political rhetoric to address the basic question about what kind of place and in what type of society we want to live.

Society should not exist to make a few people fabulously wealthy while others starve. Almost all humanity used to live this way, and we called it feudalism. Many people want to go back to that sort of system, this time under the label of libertarian or “the untrammeled free market.” The name is irrelevant because the results are the same. In Honduras, I did not meet one person who had nice things to say about the government or how the country is run. My takeaway from the trip is that living in a libertarian paradise satisfies only a few of the wealthiest citizens, while everyone else thinks it sucks.

Honduras has problems but people should go visit anyway and soon. The dangers are fleeting, and there are coffee plantations to tour, ruins to see, cigars to smoke and fish to catch. The people need your tourism dollars. As a bonus, it’s important for Americans to see the outcome when the bad ideas of teenage boys and a bad Russian writer are put into practice. Everyone believes in freedom, but it’s an idea both fetishized and unrecognizable when spouted by libertarians. There can be no such thing as freedom, safety or progress of any kind, when an entire society is run for the benefit of a handful of rich assholes and global conglomerates. If you think I’m overstating it, just go to Honduras and see it for yourself.

The Nightmare Libertarian Project to Turn This Central American Country Into Ayn Rand's Paradise
And naturally, the US is pushing the efforts along.
By Mike LaSusa / AlterNet January 27, 2015, 10:52 AM GMT
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Since the 2009 coup against President José Manuel Zelaya and subsequent election of Porfirio “Pepe Lobo” Sosa and his favored successor Juan Orlando Hernandez, Honduras has embarked on a devastating neoliberal economic program that has contributed to its status as one of the poorest and most unequal countries in the region. The privatization of Honduran society has been accompanied by a militarization of public security efforts in the country, both of which have been fueled by a network of U.S.-supported policies and programs.

Despite the country's crackdown on crime, violence in Honduras has skyrocketed in recent years. Honduras now has the world's second-highest national murder rate and is home to two of the world's five most violent cities. Unchecked gang activity has contributed to widespread corruption and impunity within police and government institutions.

This weekend, a coalition of leftist opposition parties came together temporarily to defeat a proposed amendment to the Honduran constitution that would have given permanent status to the country's militarized police force, known as the Policía Militar de Orden Público, or PMOP.

This "elite" police unit, which serves under the direct command of the presidency, is intended to support President Hernandez's heavy-handed crime reduction efforts. President Hernandez created the PMOP shortly after coming to office in 2014, with support from a legislature dominated by his conservative National Party. The Hernandez administration's police militarization efforts also had the backing of the country’s business sector.

According to one study, in 2013, only 27 percentof Hondurans expressed confidence in the civilian police while 73 percent thought the military should be involved in policing efforts. Nevertheless, both the military and the police have a long history of corruption and criminality as well as abuses committed against civilians in Honduras.

The PMOP plan isn't the only initiative with dubious implications for human rights put forth by Hernandez's government. Honduras is also experimenting with Zonas de Empleo y Desarrollo Económico (special employment and economic development zones), also known as ZEDEs or “charter cities.”

According to reporting by Danielle Marie Mackey for the New Republiclast month, here is how the project works: "An investor, either international or local, builds infrastructure....The territory in which they invest becomes an autonomous zone from Honduras...The investing company must write the laws that govern the territory, establish the local government, hire a private police force, and even has the right to set the educational system and collect taxes."

An earlier article by Erika Piquero at Latin Correspondent described the law as “allowing the corporations and individuals funding the ZEDEs to dictate the entire structural organization of the zone, including laws, tax structure, healthcare system, education and security forces. This kind of flexibility is unprecedented even in similar models around the world.”

George Rodríguez reported for the Tico Times that the plan was previously challenged and ruled unconstitutional in Honduras' supreme court, but Hernandez "twisted arms, had the [dissenting] judges removed, and brought in obedient replacements." Hernandez then re-tooled the bill and pushed it through the congress.

As Mackey reported, "The ZEDE’s central government is stacked with libertarian foreigners," including a former speechwriter for presidents Ronald Reagan and George Bush Sr., conservative political operative Grover Norquist, a senior member of the Cato Institute think tank, and Ronald Reagan's son Michael, as well as "a Danish banker, a Peruvian economist, and an Austrian general secretary of the Friedrich Hayek Institute."

According to the official ZEDE website, the zones place a heavy emphasis on security, offering “a 21st century, business-efficient, non-politicized, transparent, stable, system of administration, plus a special police and institutional security to overcome regional issues and meet world standards.” A new bill introduced by Hernandez minutes after losing the vote this weekend would allow municipalities and ZEDEs to request that the PMOP or other branches of the Armed Forces provide them with security services.

Honduras' continuing militarization of security efforts appears to have the backing of the United States, which has provided more than $65 million in security aid to Honduras since 2008. President Hernandez has also met frequently with high-level U.S. officials for talks on security and migration issues. As the U.S. amassador's Twitter account wrote on Friday, "U.S. cooperation with Honduras’ fight against narcotrafficking and crime is strong and continuing."

However, contrary to commonly held perceptions, most of the violence in Honduras is not caused by large, transnational drug trafficking organizations, but rather by smaller gangs fighting over territory (including street corners, neighborhoods and even prisons) in which to conduct extortion rackets, small-scale smuggling efforts and prostitution operations among other illegal activities.

Privatization and paramilitarization are also concerns in Honduras, with one recent report estimating that there are three times as many private security guards as police in Honduras, up to a third of whom work for unregistered companies, some of whom reportedly employ off-duty police officers looking to supplement often-meager salaries.

While international investors may be seeking to capitalize on Honduras' voluntary surrender of its national sovereignty to make a "legal" profit, even more nefarious actors are already operating in a completely unregulated, free-market criminal underworld in Honduras—one that has helped turn the country into the world's "murder capital" in recent years.

Even Honduran schools have become scenes of rampant gang activity. In a recent chilling article for the Associated Press, journalist Alberto Arce wrote that gang members "rely on kids to do much of their illegal grunt work, knowing that even if they get caught, they won't face long jail sentences...School administrators say that teachers generally are more afraid of the gangs than the remaining students are, because so many children admire gangsters." Arce also writes that "a 14-year-old can earn $500 a month in prostitution — more than a police officer's salary."

U.S.-backed policies in Honduras have fed a cycle of crime, violence, exploitation and abuse of vulnerable populations by state and non-state actors alike. According to the research organization Security Assistance Monitor, gang-driven "violence has been one of the primary drivers behind the surge in migration to the United States from Honduras," but ironically, "[t]he U.S. government practice of deporting thousands of Hondurans with criminal records, which began in the 1990s, has only fueled the growth of these gangs."

When these migrants, many of them women and children—along with those from El Salvador, Guatemala, Mexico and elsewhere—flee to the United States, they are routinely apprehended and "fast-tracked" for deportation. In the case of Honduras, migrants are sometimes sent back to some of the most violent cities in the world. Many women and children fleeing violence in Central America also experience abuses and violations of their legal rights at the hands of U.S. authorities if they are detained after crossing the border.

And the future doesn't appear to hold a change of course. In all likelihood, the new U.S. congress will continue to support efforts to militarize its southern border, as well as Mexico's southern borderwith Central America, and to "deter" migration through the use of mass detention and deportation. The U.S. government also seems likely to continue supporting the privatization and militarization of Honduran society.

As Maya Kroth wrote in September for Foreign Policy, "[c]ritics worry that evidence to date — the government’s opaque approach, the ZEDEs’ undemocratic features, the cast of characters backing the scheme, and the vulnerabilities of people likely to be affected by development — indicate that charter cities would be little more than predatory, privatized utopias, with far-reaching, negative implications for Honduran sovereignty and the well-being of poor communities."

The U.S. has coupled its neoliberal economic prescriptions with its drug war security framework in other countries in the Americas, including at home, with disastrous results. While the vote against the PMOP this weekend was an important victory for human rights advocates, from the perspective of many, much work remains to be done. It appears that the precarious situation of Honduras' most vulnerable citizens could get worse before it gets better.

https://www.alternet.org/world/nightmare-libertarian-project-push-one-central-american-country-through-massive-privitization

znoči, 
sa više ni somalija, nego honduras:)

aben wrote:znoči, 
sa više ni somalija, nego honduras:)

i jedna i druga jesu. nema države, nema zakona, čista sloboda. to je ono što ti zastrašujućom upornošću dostojnom vjerskih fanatika ovdje propagiraš.

pa lipo kupi kartu za avion i odi živit u Honduras tako pametan kakav jesi sigurno ćeš bit bogat ako te u tvom procesu bogaćenja netko ne ubije ili izmasakrira mačetama. ili bar odi vidit kao turist tu tvoju materijaliziranu utopiju i raj na zemlji.