"ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
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"ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: The West should seek the further weakening of Islamic State, but not its destruction. A weak but functioning IS can undermine the appeal of the caliphate among radical Muslims; keep bad actors focused on one another rather than on Western targets; and hamper Iran’s quest for regional hegemony.
US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter recently gathered defense ministers from allied nations to plan what officials hope will be the decisive stage in the campaign to eradicate the Islamic State (IS) organization. This is a strategic mistake.
IS, a radical Islamist group, has killed thousands of people since it declared an Islamic caliphate in June 2014, with the Syrian city of Raqqa as its de facto capital. It captured tremendous international attention by swiftly conquering large swaths of land and by releasing gruesome pictures of beheadings and other means of execution.
But IS is primarily successful where there is a political void. Although the offensives in Syria and Iraq showed IS’s tactical capabilities, they were directed against failed states with weakened militaries. On occasions when the poorly trained IS troops have met well-organized opposition, even that of non-state entities like the Kurdish militias, the group’s performance has been less convincing. When greater military pressure was applied and Turkish support dwindled, IS went into retreat.
It is true that IS has ignited immense passion among many young and frustrated Muslims all over the world, and the caliphate idea holds great appeal among believers. But the relevant question is what can IS do, particularly in its current situation? The terrorist activities for which it recently took responsibility were perpetrated mostly by lone wolves who declared their allegiance to IS; they were not directed from Raqqa. On its own, IS is capable of only limited damage.
A weak IS is, counterintuitively, preferable to a destroyed IS. IS is a magnet for radicalized Muslims in countries throughout the world. These volunteers are easier targets to identify, saving intelligence work. They acquire destructive skills in the fields of Syria and Iraq that are of undoubted concern if they return home, but some of them acquire shaheed status while still away - a blessing for their home countries. If IS is fully defeated, more of these people are likely to come home and cause trouble.
If IS loses control over its territory, the energies that went into protecting and governing a state will be directed toward organizing more terrorist attacks beyond its borders. The collapse of IS will produce a terrorist diaspora that might further radicalize Muslim immigrants in the West. Most counter-terrorism agencies understand this danger. Prolonging the life of IS probably assures the deaths of more Muslim extremists at the hands of other bad guys in the Middle East, and is likely to spare the West several terrorist attacks.
Moreover, a weak and lingering IS could undermine the attraction of the caliphate idea. A dysfunctional and embattled political entity is more conducive to the disillusionment of Muslim adherents of a caliphate in our times than an IS destroyed by a mighty America-led coalition. The latter scenario perfectly fits the narrative of continuous and perfidious efforts on the part of the West to destroy Islam, which feeds radical Muslim hatred for everything the West stands for.
The continuing existence of IS serves a strategic purpose. Why help the brutal Assad regime win the Syrian civil war? Many radical Islamists in the opposition forces, i.e., Al Nusra and its offshoots, might find other arenas in which to operate closer to Paris and Berlin. Is it in the West’s interests to strengthen the Russian grip on Syria and bolster its influence in the Middle East? Is enhancing Iranian control of Iraq congruent with American objectives in that country? Only the strategic folly that currently prevails in Washington can consider it a positive to enhance the power of the Moscow-Tehran-Damascus axis by cooperating with Russia against IS.
Furthermore, Hizballah – a radical Shiite anti-Western organization subservient to Iran – is being seriously taxed by the fight against IS, a state of affairs that suits Western interests. A Hizballah no longer involved in the Syrian civil war might engage once again in the taking of western hostages and other terrorist acts in Europe.
The Western distaste for IS brutality and immorality should not obfuscate strategic clarity. IS are truly bad guys, but few of their opponents are much better. Allowing bad guys to kill bad guys sounds very cynical, but it is useful and even moral to do so if it keeps the bad guys busy and less able to harm the good guys. The Hobbesian reality of the Middle East does not always present a neat moral choice.
The West yearns for stability, and holds out a naive hope that the military defeat of IS will be instrumental in reaching that goal. But stability is not a value in and of itself. It is desirable only if it serves our interests. The defeat of IS would encourage Iranian hegemony in the region, buttress Russia’s role, and prolong Assad’s tyranny. Tehran, Moscow, and Damascus do not share our democratic values and have little inclination to help America and the West.
Moreover, instability and crises sometimes contain portents of positive change. Unfortunately, the Obama administration fails to see that its main enemy is Iran. The Obama administration has inflated the threat from IS in order to legitimize Iran as a “responsible” actor that will, supposedly, fight IS in the Middle East. This was part of the Obama administration’s rationale for its nuclear deal with Iran and central to its “legacy,” which is likely to be ill-remembered.
The American administration does not appear capable of recognizing the fact that IS can be a useful tool in undermining Tehran’s ambitious plan for domination of the Middle East.
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Efraim Inbar, director of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies, is professor emeritus of political studies at Bar-Ilan University and a fellow at the Middle East Forum.
BESA Center Perspectives Papers are published through the generosity of the Greg Rosshandler Family
US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter recently gathered defense ministers from allied nations to plan what officials hope will be the decisive stage in the campaign to eradicate the Islamic State (IS) organization. This is a strategic mistake.
IS, a radical Islamist group, has killed thousands of people since it declared an Islamic caliphate in June 2014, with the Syrian city of Raqqa as its de facto capital. It captured tremendous international attention by swiftly conquering large swaths of land and by releasing gruesome pictures of beheadings and other means of execution.
But IS is primarily successful where there is a political void. Although the offensives in Syria and Iraq showed IS’s tactical capabilities, they were directed against failed states with weakened militaries. On occasions when the poorly trained IS troops have met well-organized opposition, even that of non-state entities like the Kurdish militias, the group’s performance has been less convincing. When greater military pressure was applied and Turkish support dwindled, IS went into retreat.
It is true that IS has ignited immense passion among many young and frustrated Muslims all over the world, and the caliphate idea holds great appeal among believers. But the relevant question is what can IS do, particularly in its current situation? The terrorist activities for which it recently took responsibility were perpetrated mostly by lone wolves who declared their allegiance to IS; they were not directed from Raqqa. On its own, IS is capable of only limited damage.
A weak IS is, counterintuitively, preferable to a destroyed IS. IS is a magnet for radicalized Muslims in countries throughout the world. These volunteers are easier targets to identify, saving intelligence work. They acquire destructive skills in the fields of Syria and Iraq that are of undoubted concern if they return home, but some of them acquire shaheed status while still away - a blessing for their home countries. If IS is fully defeated, more of these people are likely to come home and cause trouble.
If IS loses control over its territory, the energies that went into protecting and governing a state will be directed toward organizing more terrorist attacks beyond its borders. The collapse of IS will produce a terrorist diaspora that might further radicalize Muslim immigrants in the West. Most counter-terrorism agencies understand this danger. Prolonging the life of IS probably assures the deaths of more Muslim extremists at the hands of other bad guys in the Middle East, and is likely to spare the West several terrorist attacks.
Moreover, a weak and lingering IS could undermine the attraction of the caliphate idea. A dysfunctional and embattled political entity is more conducive to the disillusionment of Muslim adherents of a caliphate in our times than an IS destroyed by a mighty America-led coalition. The latter scenario perfectly fits the narrative of continuous and perfidious efforts on the part of the West to destroy Islam, which feeds radical Muslim hatred for everything the West stands for.
The continuing existence of IS serves a strategic purpose. Why help the brutal Assad regime win the Syrian civil war? Many radical Islamists in the opposition forces, i.e., Al Nusra and its offshoots, might find other arenas in which to operate closer to Paris and Berlin. Is it in the West’s interests to strengthen the Russian grip on Syria and bolster its influence in the Middle East? Is enhancing Iranian control of Iraq congruent with American objectives in that country? Only the strategic folly that currently prevails in Washington can consider it a positive to enhance the power of the Moscow-Tehran-Damascus axis by cooperating with Russia against IS.
Furthermore, Hizballah – a radical Shiite anti-Western organization subservient to Iran – is being seriously taxed by the fight against IS, a state of affairs that suits Western interests. A Hizballah no longer involved in the Syrian civil war might engage once again in the taking of western hostages and other terrorist acts in Europe.
The Western distaste for IS brutality and immorality should not obfuscate strategic clarity. IS are truly bad guys, but few of their opponents are much better. Allowing bad guys to kill bad guys sounds very cynical, but it is useful and even moral to do so if it keeps the bad guys busy and less able to harm the good guys. The Hobbesian reality of the Middle East does not always present a neat moral choice.
The West yearns for stability, and holds out a naive hope that the military defeat of IS will be instrumental in reaching that goal. But stability is not a value in and of itself. It is desirable only if it serves our interests. The defeat of IS would encourage Iranian hegemony in the region, buttress Russia’s role, and prolong Assad’s tyranny. Tehran, Moscow, and Damascus do not share our democratic values and have little inclination to help America and the West.
Moreover, instability and crises sometimes contain portents of positive change. Unfortunately, the Obama administration fails to see that its main enemy is Iran. The Obama administration has inflated the threat from IS in order to legitimize Iran as a “responsible” actor that will, supposedly, fight IS in the Middle East. This was part of the Obama administration’s rationale for its nuclear deal with Iran and central to its “legacy,” which is likely to be ill-remembered.
The American administration does not appear capable of recognizing the fact that IS can be a useful tool in undermining Tehran’s ambitious plan for domination of the Middle East.
Efraim Inbar, director of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies, is professor emeritus of political studies at Bar-Ilan University and a fellow at the Middle East Forum.
BESA Center Perspectives Papers are published through the generosity of the Greg Rosshandler Family
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marcellus- Posts : 46005
2014-04-16
Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
http://besacenter.org/perspectives-papers/destruction-islamic-state-strategic-mistake/
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marcellus- Posts : 46005
2014-04-16
Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
By Prof. Efraim Inbar August 2, 2016
cionistička politika ko iz protokola cionskih mudraca
cionistička politika ko iz protokola cionskih mudraca
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marcellus- Posts : 46005
2014-04-16
Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
jebote , koliko su to bolesni likovi
to treba u onaj americki jebeni gvantanamo skupa sa ostalom bratijom
to treba u onaj americki jebeni gvantanamo skupa sa ostalom bratijom
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Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
Odnekud mi je poznat ovaj način mudrovanje.
Osobno ne vjerujem u mogućnost rješavanja problema s ISILO-om na uvjetno rečeno civiliziran način. Ni problem s nacizmom se nije rješavao na taj način, već po sistemu: "na ljutu ranu - ljutu travu". Zanimljivo mi je ponašanje vlada i država u ovih nekoliko godina, kad su ISIL i globalni terotizam u pitanju. Način je u dlaku isti kao i u vrijeme nastajanja nacizma; isti akteri, isti proser način. Problemi s nacizmom su riješeni svjetskim ratom, a za nadati se je da će se ovaj put to ipak izbjeći.
Osobno ne vjerujem u mogućnost rješavanja problema s ISILO-om na uvjetno rečeno civiliziran način. Ni problem s nacizmom se nije rješavao na taj način, već po sistemu: "na ljutu ranu - ljutu travu". Zanimljivo mi je ponašanje vlada i država u ovih nekoliko godina, kad su ISIL i globalni terotizam u pitanju. Način je u dlaku isti kao i u vrijeme nastajanja nacizma; isti akteri, isti proser način. Problemi s nacizmom su riješeni svjetskim ratom, a za nadati se je da će se ovaj put to ipak izbjeći.
Eroo- Posts : 78946
2016-07-22
Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
jebga ero, kalkulacije, tako su i sa hicom kalkulirali pa eno im, i jos taj majstor kalkulator zhidovEroo wrote:Odnekud mi je poznat ovaj način mudrovanje.
Osobno ne vjerujem u mogućnost rješavanja problema s ISILO-om na uvjetno rečeno civiliziran način. Ni problem s nacizmom se nije rješavao na taj način, već po sistemu: "na ljutu ranu - ljutu travu". Zanimljivo mi je ponašanje vlada i država u ovih nekoliko godina, kad su ISIL i globalni terotizam u pitanju. Način je u dlaku isti kao i u vrijeme nastajanja nacizma; isti akteri, isti proser način. Problemi s nacizmom su riješeni svjetskim ratom, a za nadati se je da će se ovaj put to ipak izbjeći.
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Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
u biti vidim da je to cisto preseratorska politika izraela u kojoj isis nije preijetnja nego hezbolah i iran
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Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
ISIS je Islam
ne možeš ga uništiti kao što ne možeš uništiti kršćanstvo
tj morao bi istrjebiti 1-2 milijarde ljudi koji slijede tu ideologiju
ne možeš ga uništiti kao što ne možeš uništiti kršćanstvo
tj morao bi istrjebiti 1-2 milijarde ljudi koji slijede tu ideologiju
Guest- Guest
Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
Nevjerojatno, bulaznjenje Soros-Hitlarijine "geopolitike".
Guest- Guest
Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
isis je radikalni islam, ne prolaze ni medju vecinom muslimana,deda wrote:ISIS je Islam
ne možeš ga uništiti kao što ne možeš uništiti kršćanstvo
tj morao bi istrjebiti 1-2 milijarde ljudi koji slijede tu ideologiju
ne moze se unistit al se moze sasjeci na podnosljivu mjeru
ukoliko dosegnu odredjenu kolicinu moci onda ce biti smrt i oganj na sve strane,
oni nisu osvajaci u klasicnom smislu, oni su doslovno replika vremena inkvizicije kod krscana i istrebljivanja naroda zbog vjere,
samo kasne 500 godina
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Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
deda wrote:ISIS je Islam
ne možeš ga uništiti kao što ne možeš uništiti kršćanstvo
tj morao bi istrjebiti 1-2 milijarde ljudi koji slijede tu ideologiju
To ti i nije losa ideja...
Guest- Guest
Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
ne biti politicki nekorektankolerik wrote:deda wrote:ISIS je Islam
ne možeš ga uništiti kao što ne možeš uništiti kršćanstvo
tj morao bi istrjebiti 1-2 milijarde ljudi koji slijede tu ideologiju
To ti i nije losa ideja...
obje skupine
_________________
Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
definitivno preseravanjeLeviathan2 wrote:u biti vidim da je to cisto preseratorska politika izraela u kojoj isis nije preijetnja nego hezbolah i iran
Guest- Guest
Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
ne postoji radikalni islam, imaš samo jedan Islam, oni nisu izuzetak nego normaLeviathan2 wrote:isis je radikalni islam, ne prolaze ni medju vecinom muslimana,deda wrote:ISIS je Islam
ne možeš ga uništiti kao što ne možeš uništiti kršćanstvo
tj morao bi istrjebiti 1-2 milijarde ljudi koji slijede tu ideologiju
ovi "terorist" rade ono što im vjera zapovjeda i što je i sam Muhamed radio, slijede njegov put, Muhamed nije hodao okolo i propovjedao mir i ljubav poput Isusa, nego je ubijao, pljačkao, palio i silovao sve koji mu se nisu htjeli dobrovoljno pokoriti
iste stvari rade i u Saudijskoj Arabiji pa ih nitko ne optužuje za radikalni Islam, negu si saveznici
Guest- Guest
Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
ISIL posve pravilno tumaci islam. Kuran, istina, propovijeda mir i ljubav ALI SAMO MEDJU MUSLIMANIMA. Između svijeta muslimana i svijeta nevjernika ne smije biti mira, Kuran poziva na dzihad na nevjernike do preobracenja ili uništenja.
Islam je religija rata, iznjedren iz nasilnih kultura koje se nisu sa vremenom bitno promijenile.
Islam je religija rata, iznjedren iz nasilnih kultura koje se nisu sa vremenom bitno promijenile.
Guest- Guest
Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
o tome se radi..deda wrote:ne postoji radikalni islam, imaš samo jedan Islam, oni nisu izuzetak nego normaLeviathan2 wrote:isis je radikalni islam, ne prolaze ni medju vecinom muslimana,deda wrote:ISIS je Islam
ne možeš ga uništiti kao što ne možeš uništiti kršćanstvo
tj morao bi istrjebiti 1-2 milijarde ljudi koji slijede tu ideologiju
ovi "terorist" rade ono što im vjera zapovjeda i što je i sam Muhamed radio, slijede njegov put, Muhamed nije hodao okolo i propovjedao mir i ljubav poput Isusa, nego je ubijao, pljačkao, palio i silovao sve koji mu se nisu htjeli dobrovoljno pokoriti
iste stvari rade i u Saudijskoj Arabiji pa ih nitko ne optužuje za radikalni Islam, negu si saveznici
najgora je stvar što recimo ISIS u djelovima Sirije i Iraka koje je osvojio, više manje gotovo provodi istu vlast i iste običaje i zakone, koji tamo vladaju i vrše se tisuću ipo godina. ISIS u Mosulu(Irak) i De Zoru(Sirija) se ponaša više manje isto kako su se i prije muslimani međusobno ponašali čak i pod vlasti "sekularnih diktatora" tipa Assada i Husseina.
Dapače ISIS čak i nije ubio puno svojih sunita, ubijiaju samo za naj teže prekršaje tipa pederluk, dok čak ako uhvate pijanog svoga muslimana, ISIS mu neće odrubiti glavu, prije bi bilo par udaraca bičem, sada čak niti to - samo napišu neku novčanu kaznu jer im trebaju $$$ za ratovanje. Dok sa druge strane ISIS tamani sve što nije islam - najviše mrze šite(irance, hezbollah, alavite od assada) za njih nema milosti, zatim one yazide, dok zanimljivo sa kršćanima se ophodi onako kako piše u Kuranu.. moraju platit neki extra porez, nesmiju nositi oružje i moraju priznati nadmoć islama, i onda ih ovi čak i ostave na miru.
Da ISIS se ponašaju kao čisti muslimani, usudim se reći da je Saudijska Arabija radikalnija, da je čak i onaj Egipat kada je vladalo muslimansko bratstvo isto bio na razini ISISa.. afganistanski muslimani su možda još luđi ..itd itd.
neko je bilo globalno istraživanje glede islama, i uglavnom oko 80-90% muslimana u svijetu želi šerijatski zakon.. i hrpa zemalja ga doslovno provodi, samo je pitanje koliko radikalno ga tumače.. Iran je neka kombinacija šerijatske demokracije, samo Iranci su šiti , a kod šita se donekle dozvoljava da se Kuran tumači simbolički, zato je tamo život koliko toliko normalan u usporedbi sa recimo Saudijskom Arabijom
Guest- Guest
Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
Trump je ovo pitanje razmatrao u telefonskom razgovoru sa predsjednikom Rusije Vladimirom Putinom.
"Politika SAD je da se porazi IDIL. U okviru 30 dana, nacrt plana za pobjedu nad IDIL-om predsjedniku će podnijeti sekretar odbrane", piše u naredbi koja je objavljena na internet stranici Bijele kuće.
Plan treba da obuhvati i smjernice za diplomatiju, informatičke operacije i ciber strategiju za izolovanje i razotkrivanje IDIL-a i njene radikalne islamističke ideologije.
Ovim dokumentom bi se trebali identifikovati novi koalicioni partneri u borbi protiv terorista.
https://www.klix.ba/vijesti/svijet/trump-nalozio-vojsci-da-predlozi-plan-u-roku-od-30-dana-za-borbu-protiv-idil-a/170129045
"Politika SAD je da se porazi IDIL. U okviru 30 dana, nacrt plana za pobjedu nad IDIL-om predsjedniku će podnijeti sekretar odbrane", piše u naredbi koja je objavljena na internet stranici Bijele kuće.
Plan treba da obuhvati i smjernice za diplomatiju, informatičke operacije i ciber strategiju za izolovanje i razotkrivanje IDIL-a i njene radikalne islamističke ideologije.
Ovim dokumentom bi se trebali identifikovati novi koalicioni partneri u borbi protiv terorista.
https://www.klix.ba/vijesti/svijet/trump-nalozio-vojsci-da-predlozi-plan-u-roku-od-30-dana-za-borbu-protiv-idil-a/170129045
RayMabus- Posts : 184105
2014-04-11
Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
Zatrašivanje(terorizam) je predposljednja faza od 5 načina širenja Islama. Zadnja faza je rat.kolerik wrote:ISIL posve pravilno tumaci islam. Kuran, istina, propovijeda mir i ljubav ALI SAMO MEDJU MUSLIMANIMA. Između svijeta muslimana i svijeta nevjernika ne smije biti mira, Kuran poziva na dzihad na nevjernike do preobracenja ili uništenja.
Islam je religija rata, iznjedren iz nasilnih kultura koje se nisu sa vremenom bitno promijenile.
ISIL je u tome dosljedan. Najjednostavnije je bilo da su se tog zla sami muslimani riješili ,
dok još nije metastazirao do neslućenih razmjera. Imam osjećaj da muslimanskom svijetu još
uvijek nije jasno što im se i zašto događa, niti su svjesni posljedica koje ih tek stižu...Neminovno.
Eroo- Posts : 78946
2016-07-22
Re: "ne smijemo uništiti isil" iliti đubarska politika
To je muslimanski problem jer kad zapad popizdi pa protjera muslimane onda ce ISIL lijepo samo njima u tim sekularnim islamskim državama kidat glave.Eroo wrote:Zatrašivanje(terorizam) je predposljednja faza od 5 načina širenja Islama. Zadnja faza je rat.kolerik wrote:ISIL posve pravilno tumaci islam. Kuran, istina, propovijeda mir i ljubav ALI SAMO MEDJU MUSLIMANIMA. Između svijeta muslimana i svijeta nevjernika ne smije biti mira, Kuran poziva na dzihad na nevjernike do preobracenja ili uništenja.
Islam je religija rata, iznjedren iz nasilnih kultura koje se nisu sa vremenom bitno promijenile.
ISIL je u tome dosljedan. Najjednostavnije je bilo da su se tog zla sami muslimani riješili ,
dok još nije metastazirao do neslućenih razmjera. Imam osjećaj da muslimanskom svijetu još
uvijek nije jasno što im se i zašto događa, niti su svjesni posljedica koje ih tek stižu...Neminovno.
Sekularni muslimani vs islamski opus dei.
RayMabus- Posts : 184105
2014-04-11
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