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ICARUS INTERSTELLAR

http://www.icarusinterstellar.org/projects

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TIC TAC UFO EXECUTIVE REPORT_1526682843046_42960218_ver1.0

Executive Summary

During the period of approximately 10-16 November 2004, the Nimitz carrier Strike Group [CSG] was operating off the western coast of the United States in preparation for their deployment to the Arabian Sea. The USS Princeton on several occasions detected multiple Anomalous Aerial Vehicles (AAVs) operating in and around the vicinity of the CSG. The AAVs would descend "very rapidly" from approximately 60,000 feet down to approximately 50 feet in a matter of seconds.

They would then hover or stay stationary on the radar for a short time and depart at high velocities and turn rates. On 14 November after again detecting the AAV, the USS Princeton took the opportunity of having at flight of two F/A-18Fs returning from a training mission to further investigate the AAV. The USS Princeton tool: over control of the F/A-18s from the E-2C Airborne Early Warning aircraft and vectored in the F/A-189 for intercept leading to visual contact approximately one mile away from the AAV, which was reported to be "an elongated egg or a ‘Tic Tac’ shape with a discernable midline horizontal axis”. It was “solid white, smooth, with no edges. It was "uniformly colored with no nacelles, pylons, or wings.” lt was approximately 46 feet in length. The F/‘A-18Fs radar could not obtain a ‘lock’ on the AAV; however it could be tracked while stationary and at slower speeds with the Forward Looking Infrared {FLIR}. The AAV did take evasive actions upon intercept by the F/A-18 demonstrating an advanced acceleration (G), aerodynamic, and propulsion capability.

The AAV did not take any offensive action against the CSG; however, given its ability to operate unchallenged in close vicinity to the CSG it demonstrated the potential to conduct undetected reconnaissance leaving the CSG with a limited ability to detect, track, and/or engage the AAV.

Key Assessments:

The Anomalous Aerial Vehicle (AAV) was no known aircrat or air vehicle currently in the inventory of the United States or any foreign nation.

* The AAV exhibited advanced low observable characteristics at multiple radar bands rendering US radar based engagement capabilities ineffective.

* The AAV exhibited advanced aerodynamic performance with no visible control surfaces and no visible means to generate lift.

~ The AAV exhibited advanced propulsion capability by demonstrating the ability to remain stationary with little to no variation in altitude transitioning to horizoatal and / or vertical velocities far greater than any known aerial vehicle with little to no visible signature.

~ The AAV possibly demonstrated the ability to ‘cloak’ or become invisible to the human eye or human observation.

~ The AAV possibly demonstrated a highly advanced capability to operate undersea completely undetectable by our most advanced sensors.

-----------

u američkoj vojsci se UFO naziva "The Anomalous Aerial Vehicle (AAV)"

cijeli pdf:

https://media.lasvegasnow.com/nxsglobal/lasvegasnow/document_dev/2018/05/18/TIC%20TAC%20UFO%20EXECUTIVE%20REPORT_1526682843046_42960218_ver1.0.pdf

Speare Shaker wrote:

Noor wrote:

Speare Shaker wrote:

Noor wrote:

Rabarbara wrote:
Ma nije problem što je preuzeo riječ nego što se naljutio na ono izlizano kao da sam rekla ne znam što loše. 

Ne znam Noor. Svi mi imamo nešto u što možemo lakše vjerovati i nešto što nam se čini apsolutno nestvarno i nemoguće. 

Jbg, meni je to nemoguće jednako kako je nekom nestvarno da postoji život nakon smrti, a meni je to jasno kao dan. I normalno.

I možda sam ja nenormalna, ali nemrem si pomoći. Za vanzemaljce sam jednostavno nevjerni Toma. 

što? da u tim bespućima svemira i tom bezbroju zvjezdanih sistema postoji vrlo velika mogućnost postojanja razvijene (i nerazvijene, također) nezemaljske civilizacije?
vidiš, meni je pak nemoguće i neprihvatljivo da život postoji samo na Zemlji, a još više nemoguća mi je pretpostavka da smo upravo mi najrazvijenila civilizacija u svemiru :)

To je po meni neupitno ili kako više volim reći, s obzirom na veličinu svemira jednostavno statistički neminovno. Također i da s obzirom na starost pojedinih dijelova svemira sigurno postoje i starije pa time vjerojatno i razvijenije civilizacije.
Pustimo sad Drakeovu formulu po strani.
E sad, posve druga priča su mogući posjeti pripadnika neke visokorazvijene vanzemaljske civilizacije domorocima na Zemlji.

ta materija se ne može objektivno posmatrati kroz dosege zemaljske civilizacije, jer takva razmišljanja su subjektivna i limitirana stupnjem našeg razvoja, što je samo po sebi razumljivo, drugačije ne može ni biti...
dakle, ono što znamo - znamo (ako znamo), a što ne znamo - ne znamo, niti razumijemo. ostaje nam da do toga dođemo dugotrajnim procesom sami, ili da nas netko poduči.
znanstvenici nam na dnevnoj bazi dokazuju kako nismo popasli još ni svu pamet svijeta, a kamo li svemira.

Nema opravdanog razloga za baš toliku razinu kritiziranja znanosti. Znanost ipak dosta toga zna o temeljnim zakonima svemira i pri tome se poziva na njegova obilježja izotropnosti i homogenosti. Iz toga može izvesti puno zaključaka koji se tiču i ove teme.
Recimo jedan od njih je da će se život pojaviti svugdje tamo gdje za to postoje neki temeljni uvjeti, kao što se pojavio i na zemlji. Govorim o životu na bazi ugljika, naravno. Međutim, možemo špekulirati i o drugim oblicima života i to opet naravno na temelju dosadašnjih spoznaja znanosti uz možda malo više upotrebe mašte nego je to u znanosti uobičajeno.
Ako će se pojaviti svugdje gdje za to postoje temeljni uvjeti, to onda znači da će se pojaviti u svako vrijeme gdje za to postoje uvjeti. Što znači da ako naša galaktika i naš sustav planeta (Sunčev) ne spadaju u najstarije u svemiru, da postoje i oni puno stariji oblici života pa slijedom toga i puno razvijeniji, pa i oni izumrli. Logika.
Dakle, ako ne možemo baš znati što se u tom smislu događa u svemiru, možemo puno toga pretpostaviti i to na temelju dosadašnjih spoznaja znanosti i uz upotrebu logike. Takve se pretpostavke inače jako često na kraju pokažu kao opravdane, druga je priča što ima i puno onih posve špekulativne prirode koje kao takve i ostanu, poput recimo one priče o tahionima, a ni gravitonima kao česticama nositeljicama gravitacije kao jedne od 4 temeljne sile svemira za sad još nema ni traga ni glasa u eksperimentalnoj potvrdi, nebitno što i dalje nalaze svoje mjesto u famoznom Standardnom modelu kvantne fizike.

tko sam ja da znanost kritiziram?!  
baš naprotiv, kazala sam da ona (znanost) na dnevnoj bazi dolazi do novih spoznaja, naravno..u granicama u kojima to može, a to radi gotovo savršeno na svim poljima života. namjerno kažem gotovo savršeno, jer uvijek može i bolje i više, nadogradnjom već stećenog znanja, za koje nitko ne zna gdje su mu granice, ili što sve ljudska vrsta može, al i ne mora, otkriti i spoznati, odnosno u kojem trenutku razvoja zemaljske civilizacije će količina tog znanja doseći točku iznad koje više nema ništa. prema nekim teoretičarima ljudska civilizacija je već sada dosegla stupanj razvoja u kojem smo na samom njegovom kraju, no taj zaključak je i izveden upravo iz spoznajne i civilizacijski uvjetovane ograničenosti nama poznatog sustava.
temeljem toga smatram da nije zahvalno biti isključiv u priči o mogućim posjetima pripadnika neke visokorazvijene vanzemaljske civilizacije Zemlji, jer granice možebitnog sustava iz kojeg bi oni mogli doći, daleko bi mogle biti šire nego ljudska rasa u ovom trenutku uopće može pojmiti.

eto, nisam znanstvenik, nego onako..ukratko zdravoseljački, ali open minded.

Science advances one funeral at a time.

The German physicist Max Planck said that science advances one funeral at a time. Or more precisely: “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”

da, tik tak je bolji opisni izraz

DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
JAN 16 2019
U-18-214S/FAC-2A1 (FOIA)
Mr. Steven Aftergood
Federation of American Scientists
1112 16th Street NW, Suite 400
Washington, DC 20036
Dear Mr. Aftergood:
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20340-5100
IJAH 1 6 20JJ

This responds to your Freedom oflnformation Act (FOIA) request, dated August 15,2018,
that you submitted to the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) for information concerning a copy
of the list that was recently transmitted to Congress of all DIA products produced under the
Advanced Aerospace Threat and Ident{fication Program contract. I apologize for the delay in
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FOIA requests.
A search ofDlA's systems of records located (1) document (5 pages) responsive to your
request. Upon review, I have determined that some portions of the document must be withheld
in part from disclosure pursuant to the FOIA. The withheld portions are exempt from release
pursuant to Exemption 6 of the FOIA, 5 U.S.C. § 552 (b)(6). Exemption 6 applies to information
\ V hich if released would constitute an unwarranted invasion of the personal privacy of other
individuals.
If you are not satisfied with my response to your request, you may contact the DIA FOIA
Requester Service Center, as well as our FOIA Public Liaison at 301-394-5587.

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(U) List of Attachments

1. Inertial Electrostatic Confinement Fusion, Dr. George Miley, Univ. Of Illinois (Product
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warped extra dimension

https://www.science.gov/topicpages/w/warping+extra+dimensions

Traversable-Wormholes-Stargates-Negative-Energy

UNCLASSIFIED] I FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

Defense
Intelligence
Reference
Document

— Acquisition Threat Support

6 April 2010



ICOD: 1 December 2009
DIA-08-1004—004

Traversable Wormholes,

Sta rgates, and Negative

Energy

UNCLASSIFIED/IFOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY



UNCLASSIFIED/IFOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

Traversable Wormholes, Stargates, and Negative Energy

Prepared by: l

Acquisition Support Division (owo-3)

Defense Warning Office ~

Directorate for Analysis

Defense Intelligence Agency I'

Author:

Eric w. Davis, Ph.D.

Earthtech International, Inc.
11855 Research Blvd. r
Austin, TX 78759 ‘

Administrative Note

COPYRIGHT WARNING: Further dissemination of the photographs in this publication is not authorized.

Traversable Wormholes, Stargates, and Negative Energy

I. Summary
I

Implementation of faster-than-Iight (FTL) interstellar travel via traversable
wormholes generally requires the engineering of spacetime into very
specialized local geometries. The analysis of these via Einstein's General|
Theory of Relativity, plus the resultant equations of state, demonstrates that
such geometries require the use of "exotic" matter. It has been claimed that
since such matter violates the energy conditions, FTL spacetimes are not
plausible. However, it has been shown that this is a spurious issue. The
identification, magnitude, and production of exotic matter are seen to be a key
technical challenge, however. These issues are reviewed and summarized, and
an assessment on the present state of their resolution is provided.

In 1985 CalTech physicists M. Morris and K. Thorne discovered the principle of
traversable wormholes based on Einstein's General Theory of Relativity .
(published in 1915). Morris and Thorne (Reference 1) and Morris et al.
(Reference 2) did this as an academic exercise at the request of Carl Sagan,
who had completed the draft of his novel Contact. This little exercise led‘to the
development of two new cottage industries in spacetime physics research: the
study of traversable wormholes and the study of time machines. Wormholes
are hyperspace tunnels through spacetime connecting either remote regions
within our universe or two different universes; they even connect different
dimensions and different times. Space travelers would enter one side of the
tunnel and exit the other, passing through the throat alon the way. The-
travelers would move at s c (c is the speed of light, 3 x 10 m/s) through the
wormhole and therefore not violate Special Relativity, but external observers
would view the travelers as traversing multi-Iight-year distances through
space at FTL speed; Figure 1 illustrates this effect. A “stargate” is a special
class of traversable wormhole solutions to Einstein's general relativistic 'Ifield
equation that possesses very simple physics and flat entry and exit open'ings.

Traversable wormholes are unlike the well—known, non-traversable Einstein-
Rosen Bridges or Schwarzschild wormholes that are formed from collapsed
stellar matter (that is, black holes) or spherically symmetric vacuum regions.
Black holes are collapsed stars that have all their mass concentrated at an
infinitesimal point where the induced gravitational field crushes all matter and
spacetime. However, even Einstein-Rosen bridges can be made traversale by
an infinitesimal tweaking of their spacetime metric. In the case of black holes,
the singularity of collapsed matter, along with its crushing gravity field, totally
blocks the way through the tunnel.
A traversable wormhole does not have a
singularity blocking the tunnel or any crushing gravity field. Explorers would
enter one side of the tunnel, travel through the throat, and exit the other side.

Traversable wormholes also do not possess an event horizon, a region of high
gravitational field strength separating the inside space surrounding the black
hole's singularity from the outside universe. Once you go through a black
hole's event horizon, you can never come back out because you will have to
attain FTL speed to escape it. Not even light can escape from an event horizon.

Figure 1. Intra-Universe Wormhole as a Hyperspace Shortcut Through Conventional Space

Traversable wormholes are creatures of classical general relativity theory
allowing for very comfortable travel through the Cosmic Neighborhood. But
from the viewpoint of modern physics, the Cosmic Neighborhood can
encompass other universes, other space dimensions, and other times beyond
the four-dimensional spacetime realm. Mankind has certainly not discovered
all of the universe's facets and will need to continue to construct new
experiments and technology in order to verify (or not) these undiscovered
facets. Wormholes can possess normal or backward (in special cases) motion
through time and normal or nonexistent gravitational stresses on space f
travelers, and their entry/exit openings (or throats) are spherically shaped,
flat, cubic shaped, polyhedral shaped, generic shaped, and so forth.

Why consider wormholes for travel through space, time, and other dimensions?
All standard space propulsion engineering is based on Newton's three laws of
motion, which is dependent on the expenditure of propellant to induce thrust-
generating momentum transfer on a spacecraft. Many investigators have
proposed interstellar propulsion schemes based on a variety of nuclear Cfission,
fusion, and pulsed) rockets, electric (ion or plasma) rockets, matter-

antimatter annihilation rockets, solar or laser sails, fusion or laser ramjets,
interstellar ion scoops, beamed energy propulsion (sails, rockets, and ramjets),
and so forth. Many of these modes either have been experimentally tested at
one time or another in our recent history or remain as theoretical proposals, but all are based on Newtonian mechanics. The limiting speed of space flight,
based on any of these modes, is the speed of light. It is important to point out
that for the interstellar travel application, Newtonian rocket propulsion modes
suffer from enormous mass ratios > 105 - 10""0 (depending on the specific
impulse) for spacecraft cruise velocities > 0.05c, if the travel time is '
constrained to within 100 years for a one-way interstellar voyage.

If the ;cruise
velocity is increased to sub-relativistic, near—relativistic, or even ultra-
relativistic speeds and thus reduces the one-way travel time, then the mass
ratio increases (exponentially!). The mass ratio is the initial spacecraft rnass
(payload + structure + propellant) at launch divided by the final spacecraft
mass (payload + structure) at “burnout." The large ratios given above show
that Newtonian rockets consist mostly of propellant in order to propel the
propellant, along with a given tiny payload, through interstellar space. The
specific impulse is a measure of rocket propulsion system efficiency: how
much impulse (thrust multiplied by time) is produced per unit of mass at
propellant expenditure. It is desired that rocket propulsion systems possess a
very high specific impulse in order to reduce the mass ratio, and hence
propellant mass requirement, to reasonable levels.

The non-traditional propulsion modes (sails, ramjets, beamed power, etc.)
have different efficiencies and constraints, but they are all still dependent on
Newtonian mechanics, even though their mass ratio and specific impulse
characteristics are slightly improved over that of the traditional modes. But all
traditional and non-traditional propulsion modes come with a great costiin
interstellar voyage travel time. At non-relativistic and sub-relativistic cruise
speeds, it will take explorers several human lifetimes to reach stellar
destinations. At low relativistic to ultra-relativistic cruise speeds, the travel
time will be reduced to hours, days, weeks, months, or years. However, at
these cruise speeds, relativistic time dilation will kick in, and the returning
interstellar voyagers will find that decades to thousands of years have elapsed
on Earth since their launch date and that their families and culture no longer
exist or are unrecognizable. This is an undesirable outcome for any interstellar
voyage. Furthermore, traditional Newtonian propulsion cannot transcend time
or spacetime dimensions or universes.


The solution to this problem is to dispense entirely with long interstellar
voyage times or the undesirable outcome of relativistic time dilation.

Explorers
could deploy a wormhoIe-stargate near the Earth's surface, in Earth's orbit, or
anywhere in the solar system they like and just pass through the “stargate”
and come out the other side in remote spacetime within seconds, moving
through the throat at low cruise speeds (30 mph!) and with no time dilation
effects. Explorers could travel through the wormhole-stargates in small scout
ships or send probes unencumbered by either enormous propellant mass
ratios or extensive life support provisions. Effective travel time through the
Cosmic Neighborhood via stargates would become irrelevant but could be
estimated to be many times or thousands of times the speed of light. Explorers
could spend all day investigating the remote spacetime location and then
return home through the stargate in time to have dinner with their families. If
explorers were to really push the envelope, they would design their stargate
so they could return from their voyage in time to wave goodbye to themselves

as they see themselves depart on their journey. This is no longer recognized in
classical general relativity physics as a time paradox issue. It is very easy to
build a time machine, given a traversable wormhole. But time travel via -
wormho e is beyond the scope of this paper.

Suffice it to say that classical
general relativity theory is seriously infested with time machines; the theory
both allows for and demands time travel in order to preserve self-consistency
of dynamic spacetime solutions for just about every problem ever studied.

Implementation of FTL interstellar travel via traversable wormholes generally
requires the engineering of spacetime into very specialized local geometries.
Analysis of these via the general relativistic field equation, plus the resuitant
source matter equations of state, demonstrates that such geometries require
the use of “exotic" matter in order to produce the requisite FTL spacetime
modification. Exotic matter is generally defined by general relativity physics to
be matter that possesses (renormalized) negative energy density (sometimes
negative stress-tension = outward pressure, aka gravitational repulsion or
antigravity). This term is very misunderstood and misapplied by the non’-
general-relativity community. This misconception can be cleared up by .
defining what negative energy is and where it can be found in nature and by
reviewing the proposed experimental concepts for generating negative energy
in the laboratory. In addition, it has been claimed that FTL spacetimes am not
piausibie because exotic matter violates the general relativistic energy
conditions. However, this has been shown to be a spurious issue. The
identification, magnitude, and production of exotic matter are seen as key
technical challenges, however. FTL spacetimes also possess features that
challenge the notions of causality, and quantum effects allegedly place
constraints on them. These issues are reviewed and summarized, and an
assessment on the present state of their resolution is provided.

cijeli tekst sa slikama:

http://electrogravityphysics.com/wp-content/uploads/traversable-wormholes-stargates-negative-energy001.pdf

zanimljiva ta transversalna crvotočina uđeš i u trenu izađeš 5 milijuna svjetlosnih godina negdje u svemiru i vratiš se na Zemlju prije svog rođenja ili čak u doba dinosaura ili bilo kad u povijest.

možda NLO-i koriste crvotočine za transport...možda su ti NLO-i i alieni ustvari bića koja su nekada živjela na Zemlji prije nego se pojavio čovijek i sad se vraćaju ali u krivo vrijeme ili su zabrljali račune njima je prošlo deset minuta a ovdje je prošlo par milijuna godina. sad su u čudu nije to kako je nekad bilo... ili su to naši potomci iz daleke budućnosti pa malo švrljaju po povijesti...

zanimljivo za razumijevanje, da...ili bar pokusaj toga, ali da imam šansu to doživjeti, a da ovisi o mojoj volji, odbila bi je, jer mislim da bih nakon tog iskustva bila apsolutno disfunkcionalna do kraja zivota.
ti?

Noor wrote:

tko sam ja da znanost kritiziram?!  
baš naprotiv, kazala sam da ona (znanost) na dnevnoj bazi dolazi do novih spoznaja, naravno..u granicama u kojima to može, a to radi gotovo savršeno na svim poljima života. namjerno kažem gotovo savršeno, jer uvijek može i bolje i više, nadogradnjom već stećenog znanja, za koje nitko ne zna gdje su mu granice, ili što sve ljudska vrsta može, al i ne mora, otkriti i spoznati, odnosno u kojem trenutku razvoja zemaljske civilizacije će količina tog znanja doseći točku iznad koje više nema ništa. prema nekim teoretičarima ljudska civilizacija je već sada dosegla stupanj razvoja u kojem smo na samom njegovom kraju, no taj zaključak je i izveden upravo iz spoznajne i civilizacijski uvjetovane ograničenosti nama poznatog sustava.
temeljem toga smatram da nije zahvalno biti isključiv u priči o mogućim posjetima pripadnika neke visokorazvijene vanzemaljske civilizacije Zemlji, jer granice možebitnog sustava iz kojeg bi oni mogli doći, daleko bi mogle biti šire nego ljudska rasa u ovom trenutku uopće može pojmiti.

eto, nisam znanstvenik, nego onako..ukratko zdravoseljački, ali open minded.

Ne, nipošto nije dobro biti isključiv. :)
Čak niti ako ćemo govoriti onako čisto zdravoseljački, a znanost to ionako definitivno nije i to doslovce po definiciji. Bez obzira na povremena zastranjenja u istraživanjima koja dolaze prije svega zog komercijalnih interesa onih koji su istraživanja naručili. No, to je više opstrukcija znanosti nego znanost sama, a i znanstvenici su u konačnici samo ljudi i ništa ljudsko im nije strano.
Inače, nikada nećemo dostići točku iznad koje nisu moguće nove spoznaje i to je sva dosadašnja povijest znanosti pokazala.
Već sam par puta spominjao primjer fizike sa kraja 19. stoljeća. Vladalo je opće mišljenje u znanosti kako je nakon Maxwellovih formula otkriveno skoro sve što se uopće može otkriti. Još samo par jednadžbi i napokon ćemo moći znati svu prošlost sadašnjost i budućnost svih kretanja i stanja svakog objekta u svemiru.
Međutim, onda su počeli eksperimenti sa mjerenjem brzine svjetlosti i to sa ciljem kako bi potvrdili valnu prirodu tog fenomena (prevladavajuće objašnjenje još od vremena Newtona, a i potvrđivale su je Maxwellove jednadžbe), po čemu bi se brzina svjetlosti morala mijenjati ovisno o kretanju valova, ali se dogodilo nešto neobično. Kako god je mjerili, brzina svjetlosti u vakuumu je uvijek bila ista.
To je bila tajna koju je tek Einstein svojom Specijalnom teorijom relativnosti i čuvenom formulom uspio razriješiti i to temeljitom promjenom paradigme. Naime, on je shvatio da se do tada od Newtona prostor i vrijeme shvaćalo kao apsolutne kategorije, a brzinu gibanja kao relativnu.
A što ako je zapravo obrnuto?
Dalje je uslijedila njegova Opća teorija relativnosti, pa kvantna fizika i došao je kraj udobnog i predvidljivog svijeta fizike. :)
Inače se uvijek sjetim kako je Hawking u prvom izdanju svoje Kratke povijesti vremena prije nešto više od 30 godina hrabro najavljivao da će fizika do famozne Velike ujedinjavajuće teorije (GUT) kolokvijalno poznate i kao Teorija svega doći za nekih dvadesetak godina.
U međuvremenu je prošlo više od 30 i čini se kako je famozna GUT dalje nego ikad.
U međuvremenu je propala Teorija struna koja se činila najboljim izborom za GUT od svih, što je jedan od rodonačelnika teorije Michio Kaku lijepo opisao u svojoj knjizi Hiperprostor.
Što sam ono zapravo htio reći?
Da, informacije i znanje sa kojima baratamo spadaju u domenu našeg uma koji je ipak ograničen kao što je ograničen i broj atoma od kojih se sastoji naš organizam, kao što je uostalom i ograničen odnosno konačan i broj atoma i subatomskih čestica od kojih se sastoji i cijeli svemir, ali to ne znači da ćemo mi ljudi kao vrsta imati dovoljno vremena spoznati sve što se uopće može spoznati ili barem sve ono koliko je to u našoj moći. Prije će se dogoditi da jednostavno nestanemo kao vrsta.
Kad su ostale visokointeligentne vrste u svemiru u pitanju, za koje sam siguran da postoje, ali nisam da su posjećivale Zemlju jer za to nema niti jednog jedinog iole pouzdanog dokaza, što ne znači da se takav prije ili kasnije sigurno neće pojaviti, kraj njihove percepcije dolazi najkasnije sa neminovnom "smrću" cijelog svemira zbog djelovanja Drugog zakona termodinamike odnosno entropije koja proizlazi iz njega.

Noor wrote:zanimljivo za razumijevanje, da...ili bar pokusaj toga, ali da imam šansu to doživjeti, a da ovisi o mojoj volji, odbila bi je, jer mislim da bih nakon tog iskustva bila apsolutno disfunkcionalna do kraja zivota.
ti?

ja bi odmah skočio u crvotočinu ali koje sam kurčeve sreće na drugom kraju crvotočine bila bi crna rupa i bućnuo bi drito u crnu rupu. to se zove kozmički baksuz paradox.

Ovako nekako?! :)

Noor wrote:

Rabarbara wrote:
Ma nije problem što je preuzeo riječ nego što se naljutio na ono izlizano kao da sam rekla ne znam što loše. 

Ne znam Noor. Svi mi imamo nešto u što možemo lakše vjerovati i nešto što nam se čini apsolutno nestvarno i nemoguće. 

Jbg, meni je to nemoguće jednako kako je nekom nestvarno da postoji život nakon smrti, a meni je to jasno kao dan. I normalno.

I možda sam ja nenormalna, ali nemrem si pomoći. Za vanzemaljce sam jednostavno nevjerni Toma. 

što? da u tim bespućima svemira i tom bezbroju zvjezdanih sistema postoji vrlo velika mogućnost postojanja razvijene (i nerazvijene, također) nezemaljske civilizacije?
vidiš, meni je pak nemoguće i neprihvatljivo da život postoji samo na Zemlji, a još više nemoguća mi je pretpostavka da smo upravo mi najrazvijenila civilizacija u svemiru :)

A ne ne... Nismo se skužile. :)

Ne mislim da smo mi na Zemlji jedini oblik života u svemiru. 

Ja ne vjerujem da su nas do sad bilo kada posjetili vanzemaljci. Izlizane su mi priče tzv. vidioca NLO objekata. 

Došli i nestali bez da uspostave bilo kakav oblik komunikacije. Pa zar ni pivo popiti nakon tako dugog puta? 

oko tih stvori je nojbolje pojti od onoga ča se misli da se zno.
ono ča znomo je da je svemiru tribalo 10 milijardi godin da stvori život, i 14 milijardi za ineligentan život.
ako uzmemo da je ukupna starost 14 milijardi, i da se karbun uopće ni mogo stvoriti prvu milijardu godin, i da je aktivnosti u svemiru svetomanje, jednostavno nemo dovoljno vrimena da se sve žive potrebne slučajnosti odigraju.
ako prihvatimo i činjenicu da je red krhak i težok, a nered uobičajen i lak, ne ostaje nan nišće drugo nego ustvditi da su vanzemaljci =horoskop

Speare Shaker wrote:
Ne, nipošto nije dobro biti isključiv. :)
Kad su ostale visokointeligentne vrste u svemiru u pitanju, za koje sam siguran da postoje, ali nisam da su posjećivale Zemlju jer za to nema niti jednog jedinog iole pouzdanog dokaza, što ne znači da se takav prije ili kasnije sigurno neće pojavit

u moru fake filmova i fotografija i jos vise izmisljenih prica, autenticnih dokaza u stvari ima jako puno, no ni jedan nije ni od kakvih struktura sluzbeno, javno potvrđen, a za to postoji i opravdan razlog, kojeg ipak necu ovdje iznositi :)

Rabarbara wrote:

Noor wrote:

Rabarbara wrote:
Ma nije problem što je preuzeo riječ nego što se naljutio na ono izlizano kao da sam rekla ne znam što loše. 

Ne znam Noor. Svi mi imamo nešto u što možemo lakše vjerovati i nešto što nam se čini apsolutno nestvarno i nemoguće. 

Jbg, meni je to nemoguće jednako kako je nekom nestvarno da postoji život nakon smrti, a meni je to jasno kao dan. I normalno.

I možda sam ja nenormalna, ali nemrem si pomoći. Za vanzemaljce sam jednostavno nevjerni Toma. 

što? da u tim bespućima svemira i tom bezbroju zvjezdanih sistema postoji vrlo velika mogućnost postojanja razvijene (i nerazvijene, također) nezemaljske civilizacije?
vidiš, meni je pak nemoguće i neprihvatljivo da život postoji samo na Zemlji, a još više nemoguća mi je pretpostavka da smo upravo mi najrazvijenila civilizacija u svemiru :)

A ne ne... Nismo se skužile. :)

Ne mislim da smo mi na Zemlji jedini oblik života u svemiru. 

Ja ne vjerujem da su nas do sad bilo kada posjetili vanzemaljci. Izlizane su mi priče tzv. vidioca NLO objekata. 

Došli i nestali bez da uspostave bilo kakav oblik komunikacije. Pa zar ni pivo popiti nakon tako dugog puta? 

kad bi ti meni pricala o stvarima koje si dozivjela o zivotu poslije smrti, ja bi tebi to vjerovala na riječ

aben wrote:14 milijardi za ineligentan život.

Vjerojatno ne više od 2 milijarde.
O tome smo već raspravljali.

Speare Shaker wrote:

aben wrote:14 milijardi za ineligentan život.

Vjerojatno ne više od 2 milijarde.
O tome smo već raspravljali.

to su procjene ljudi prestrašenih samoćom, pa broju od paušalnog trenutka (stvaranje zemlje) da ispade ča manje godin.
jo bi van preporuči da brojite od udara na jukatan, ili od zadnjeg ledenog doba, dobit ćete još bolji broji:)

Noor wrote:
u moru fake filmova i fotografija i jos vise izmisljenih prica, autenticnih dokaza u stvari ima jako puno, no ni jedan nije ni od kakvih struktura sluzbeno, javno potvrđen, a za to postoji i opravdan razlog, kojeg ipak necu ovdje iznositi :)

Znanost ne zahtjeva javnu potvrdu. Da je do raspoloženja javnosti, Einstein nikada ne bi izašao niti sa Specijalnom, a kamoli Općom teorijom  relativnosti. :)
Poznat je primjer knjige "100 autora proiv Einsteina". Kada su ga pitali da ju komentira, on je rekao: "Ako su u pravu, nije ih potrebno stotinu. Dovoljan je samo jedan. Ako su u krivu, onda ih nije dovoljno niti stotinu." :)
Poanta je u tome da je u tom konkretnom slučaju bio u pravu. :)
Da ne spominjem kvantnu fiziku koju u vrijeme njenog nastanka doslovce niti jedan jedini filozof nije razumio, a kamalo znanstveni laici ili mediji, a i vrlo mali broj fizičara.
Opravdan razlog je vjerojatno neizazivanje panike kod stanovništva, ali to mi se nekako ne uklapa u sveopće raspoloženje na zapadu već posljednjih nekoliko desetljeća koje se može opisati kao nestrpljivo iščekivanje neumitne propasti radi nekog oblika iskupljenja pa ne vidim što bi se posebno moglo dogoditi da javnost sazna za kontakte sa pripadnicima vanzemaljskih visokorazvijenih civilizacija. :)
Da ne spominjem kako se danas takvi javni istupi pojedinih ili znanstvenika ili samo odlično informiranih ljudi jednostavno ne bi mogli izbjeći, s obzirom na sveopću glad za medijskim senzacijama.

aben wrote:

Speare Shaker wrote:

aben wrote:14 milijardi za ineligentan život.

Vjerojatno ne više od 2 milijarde.
O tome smo već raspravljali.

to su procjene ljudi prestrašenih samoćom, pa broju od paušalnog trenutka (stvaranje zemlje) da ispade ča manje godin.

Ne, to su radne hipoteze utemeljene na znanstveno opravdanim podacima i scenarijima. :)